<HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type= content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1></HEAD> <BODY text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff>Well, gee, I know what a good= tuning sounds like everytime I'm done tuning with my SAT= III.  The idea of what a good tuning is so subjective= it's ridiculous.   We have people extolling HTs as the= best sounding tunings, David Anderson claims his 4ths/5ths= tunings makes grown women cry...;-]  Bill Bremmer= claims we're all just tuning reverse wells anyway and we've= never tuned a real equal temperment.  Just what is a good= tuning in your opinion Mr. Brekne?   Or do only your= ears do the talking?  David Ilvedson,= RPT <DIV style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;= PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 3px solid;= PADDING-TOP: 5px"> <HR> Original message From: Richard Brekne= <RICHARD.BREKNE@GRIEG.UIB.NO> To: Newtonburg= <PIANOTECH@PTG.ORG> Received: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 22:26:15= +0100 Subject: re: not what I signed up for <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV align=left><PRE> Andre wrote: OK bud, but then, after having tuned aurally for the greater part of my= life, and, having been mauled and aurally sharpened by the Yamaha= Acadamy, just like you, I have come to the humiliating but also= enlightening conclusion that my ETD gives me that very same result not in two= hours time, like at the Academy, but in 45 minutes (or less) every= time, every day, and especially on every instrument.You know me= personally, you surely would not suggest that I don't know what I am talking= about? (Although, I have already learned that in this life, anything is possible). I will keep thinking, and saying, that nowadays we finally have extremely efficient ETD's.To me, an efficient ETD tells me= personally about pitch, nothing else. It helps me tuning the strings at the most compromised pitch. The making of tone, is a different matter and far more= important, because most people can not tell the difference whether a 5th is= almost perfect, or not. Over and out. friendly greetings </PRE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> Andre ! Would I suggest= you dont know what you're talking about ???? grin.. surely you= jest. If there is anyone who deserves the title of Piano= Guru in my book, surely you are amoung the most valued of= these. Still, my own concerns hold, and do not really= come in conflict with your enthusiasms for Verituner. I just= find it suspect at best to assume that tuning interests are= served by developing the idea that we only need the machine.= That we need not  develop a musical ear for ourselves, that= we need not develop an theoretical  understanding of tuning= in general, that we need not put the machines solution= (regardless of how good that is or isnt) into the perspective of= the subjective yet learned EAR. Not having tried the= Verituner myself, I of course can not speak to its pros and cons= beyond the fact that I am on record for being in support of the= general multipartial approach. The single partial approach does= not really do it for me. I find too many examples like the one= that started this thread that result from out and out reliance= on single partial tuning curves.  But my point is not about= whether their exists a <<good enough>> tuning= machine or not. It goes to what happens when we become so= reliant on them that we no longer can <<hear>> much= less <<understand>> what a good tuning is= anymore.   I'm all for using ETD's... but only as a= supplement. Keeping the collective << tuners ear >>= trained, schooled, and ready can only be a good idea as far as I= can= see. Cheers RicB <PRE></PRE></DIV></BOD= Y></HTML>