<HTML>In a message dated 5/2/01 1:15:47 PM Central Daylight Time, Tvak@AOL.COM writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Is there a way to regulate the damper spoons with the action out of the piano?  (We tried this and failed miserably.) Any other suggestions?  </BLOCKQUOTE> I'd only recommend the "quick & dirty" method for an occasional adjustment but you can use it with what I'm going to tell you later in this post.   First, however, how are the dampers lifting with the pedal?  Are they uniform?  If not, adjusting the wires will change when the spoons lift. How short is the blow distance?  Did you *arbitrarily* set a blow distance with a ruler because you found a measurement in a book?  Did you have to crank the capstans way up to take up the lost motion?  Whether you did or not, is there too much aftertouch?  If so, remove some material from the rest rail supports to increase the blow distance, then lower the capstans.  This will cause the damper spoons to engage later, possibly solving your problem. If it comes down to having to adjust the spoons, *carefully* use the "quick & dirty" method to adjust just one spoon, say for the note at the end of the middle section.  Now remove the action and place it in a cradle if you have one.  Get a wedge of wood, about the same size as a tuning mute (but use hard material like wood, not a soft mute).  Lift the damper rod and place the wedge under it.  Find the point on the note you have already adjusted where the damper lever and the hammer move at exactly the same time as you lift the wippen with your fingers.  Put the wedge in more or pull it out to find this exact spot. Now, the wedge will hold the damper rod at the place where you can adjust all of the other spoons similarly.  It should take just a slight bend inwards.   Unfortunately, I can't visualize the Sostenuto mechanism arrangement which is complicating matters.  Hopefully, you will be able to slip in a damper wire bending tool onto the spoon and with a careful bend of the spoon inwards, you should be able to make the difference you need without too much bending back and forth. These kinds of skills are just as difficult to develop as tuning skills are.   It takes only a slight tweak of the spoon to make a significant difference in when it will engage the damper lever.  That is why the "quick & dirty" method can work in many instances to make a slight adjustment on a few early lifting dampers. Another variation of the "quick & dirty" method is to take a screwdriver blade, reach through the rest of the action to the damper lever.  Put the tip of the screwdriver into the cup where the damper lever spring fits.  Press firmly so that the lever will not move and press the key very hard and firmly all the way to the bottom of the range of motion of the key.  This will cause the spoon to bend itself in slightly, thus causing it to engage the damper lever at a later point of key travel the next time.  Caution, however, this is also risky and can cause parts to break from the improper stress you are placing on them, especially in an older, more fragile piano action. Good luck.  If you need any clarification on the procedure, post again. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin</HTML>