<HTML>In a message dated 12/17/01 7:12:12 PM Central Standard Time, kam544@flash.net writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Charles, List, Thank you for supplying this information.  It certainly clarifies one of those questions. And thank you Bill for taking the time to write such an excellent post.</BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks so much to Charles for posting that archive information.  I had forgotten that I had written such an extensive response but I do know that I have said many times that I did not invent the term, "Reverse Well".  Owen Jorgensen recognizes it and has written to me in private about it but I have never seen the words as such published. I will post that article immediately on my website and will announce it publicly when I have the final edited version completed.  What I want on my website is this kind of information.  Ron Koval's graphs will soon be posted.  I'm talking to Skip Becker about posting his entire series of articles called "History of Tuning". People talk about ET as being the *end* of the evolution of tuning.  I think something else started happening about 1985.  It seems to me that what I am doing is the result of what I have learned from others, both those who only want ET and those who don't.  You won't find my ideas about an Equal Beating Victorian Temperament in any book.  Nor will you ever find the terms, "Tempered Octaves" or "Reverse Well".  Where you will find these subjects discussed is here on Pianotech and in my new website. The answer to your other question is basically that the power behind the EBVT with tempered octaves is one of the examples of where "Less is More".  Look to the *cummulative effect* of the very small changes I have made to the *usual* way the piano is tuned to find what is worth while about it. The most common comment I receive when a listener knows about the EBVT and hears something played on a piano I have tuned is, "It sounds really great but I can't tell what the difference is from ET".  Yet consider this, it would *not* pass the PTG Exam.  On the other hand, when a comparison is made, the distinctions become quite evident and I don't mind saying that the preference is *heavily* in favor of the EBVT. Today I encountered a piano tuned in a way that most readers of this list would think   highly improbable, if not impossible..  I don't like to read these, "how bad was it?" stories with all the gory details so I'll try to be as *clinical* as possible.  It was Reverse Well, to be sure.  Half of the notes were 8 cents off from ET.  This would have scored *-120* on the PTG Exam!!!   It was exactly opposite of the way many early WT's such as Kirnberger, Werkmieister or Aaron-Neidhardt are.  I have heard 19th and 20th Century music played in these temperaments and people largely do accept the sound as normal.  It is when Technicians raise their objections that heated emotions occur. This piano had been moved from the East Coast.  I can hardly believe one thing:  that it was tuned *acceptably* in ET and this was the result of moving.  I can believe, however that anyone who makes a living tuning pianos and produces this kind of result is *not* aware of how far *off* it really is, thinks that what is being done is good and proper work and finally, knows *abosolutely NOTHING* about HT's but would *swear* that he/she is tuning ET. This customer's main concern was about the pedal trapwork which the movers could not figure out how to reinstall.  Turns out it took me as long to figure it out and get it working as it did to tune the piano.  The customer actually said, "I'm mainly concerned about the pedals but I think it may need tuning, I don't know, I can't really tell".  Of course I said nothing about Reverse Well or EBVT.  I tuned the piano and when I played it for her, she said, "Well yes, that *does* sound much better!"  That's good enough for me. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin <A HREF="http://www.billbremmer.com/">Click here: -=w w w . b i l l b r e m m e r . c o m =-</A> </HTML>