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<DIV>"....I don't raise above pitch at all...."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"....I may be favoring the pitch to the sharp side as I'm going a
long...." </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yes, I suspect you are leaning toward the sharp side. Sharp =
usually
means raising above pitch. It appears you may not be defying any =
laws of
physics after all.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Terry Farrell </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ilvey@sbcglobal.net =
href="mailto:ilvey@sbcglobal.net">David
Ilvedson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 07, =
2001 5:45
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Oops?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Terry,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That's me...defying physics for 28 =
years...I
rarely break strings also...;-] I don't get that much drop in
pitch...EVER! Of course I may be favoring the pitch to the sharp =
side as
I'm going a long...slight roll to the right...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>David I.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR =
***********<BR><BR>On
11/7/01 at 5:46 AM Farrell wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid">
<DIV>It is hard to believe you end up with a piano at targeted
pitch. Your description appears to defy laws of physics. =
Consider
the top two of four sections on the grand. If the whole piano was =
100 cents
flat, starting at A0, by the time you get to the upper treble those =
notes
will be 120 or more cents flat. Raise them to targeted pitch, and =
they will
fall a good 33%, or 40 cents by the time you finish your first pass. =
Treble
now 40 cents flat. Start second pass targeting standard pitch, no =
overpull.
Treble will be at least another 10 cents flat by the time you get =
there, so
it will be 50 cents flat. Raise treble to standard pitch, and they =
will fall
a good 33%, or 17 cents or so. The treble is now 17 cents flat after =
the
second pitch-raise pass.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now you start your tuning pass with the treble 17 cents flat? =
Tenor
will likely be in the 10-cent flat area. If, on the tuning and final =
pass
you do not add any overpull, you will still end up at least 3 cents =
flat in
tenor and somewhere between 5 and 10 cents flat in treble. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have yet to see a piano that varies significantly from the =
above
description. Am I missing something?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"......am I concerned about the quality or stability of the
tuning?"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hmmmmm. Why do you not use any overpull to get the piano to
pitch?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Terry Farrell</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ilvey@sbcglobal.net =
href="mailto:ilvey@sbcglobal.net">David
Ilvedson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 06, =
2001 1:23
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Oops?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I am in the minority, but I don't raise above pitch at =
all...If -100
cents, I take a my FAC readings with those notes at correct pitch =
then
bring each string up to a correct pitch as per SAT from A0 to =
C8...if the
tenor isn't as flat as the rest of the piano it doesn't get raised =
any
higher than any other part of the piano. So when I go =
through it a
second time it is about 10 to 15 cents flat (I don't really =
care
where...the piano decides that but it isn't anywhere near 30 cents =
flat!)
and I go through it again to pitch. The bass is now =
reasonably
stable and a quick 3rd time through the tenor/treble and I'm =
done
with the initial tuning...see ya in 3 to 6 months...am I concerned =
about
the quality or stability of the tuning? I don't think so...I =
didn't
let it go for 15 years...it's not my problem...I don't use a temp =
strip,
just mutes and tuning unisons as I go...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>David I.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR
***********<BR><BR>On 11/5/01 at 7:35 PM Billbrpt@AOL.COM
wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 =
2px solid"><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In a message dated 11/5/01 =
6:16:31 PM
Central Standard Time, davidlovepianos@earthlink.net (David =
Love)
writes: <BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Also, so that those who are not familiar with your =
style
of tuning are not mislead, the standard pitch raise function =
should
get the treble sharp enough if you measure/reset frequently on =
the way
up and if you are using standard stretching. I recall =
that you
mentioned that in your tempered octaves tuning you are +75 =
cents by
the time you get to C8. Those tuning with normal stretch =
are
more likely to reach only +40. For your system that =
would
require additional stretch going up. For others, they =
would end
up considerably sharp of the target and have to do a lowering =
before a
fine tuning.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 =
face=Arial
color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Yes, but bear =
in mind that
most of the time I use a more conventional amount of stretch. =
The
triple octave/double octave and fifth comparison is only for =
when I wan
the absolute maximum and justifiable amount. <BR><BR>Once =
I get
into the last part of the 7th octave, all bets are off. =
But let's
take a piano that is 1/2 step flat in the midrange. That's =
100%.
Very often, such a piano is not evenly low in pitch. =
The
high treble may easily be 150% flat. Now add 30 cents for =
the high
treble for the usual amount of stretch. We're up to 180% =
now,
which theoretically would take +60 cents overpull. Yipes!
<BR><BR>Maybe on a new or newly strung piano but even then, I'd =
prefer
to work my way up. The danger of breaking a string or =
splitting
the bridge on the poor old Betsy Ross is simply too great. =
Add to
that the kind of test blows needed to settle such a change and =
you'd be
bustin' those elbows or breaking the keys themselves at the =
balance
rail. <BR><BR>It all adds up to a claim that I would really like =
to see
substantiated: a 100% pitch raise in 2 passes that comes =
out "dead
on". I'm not from Missouri but *show me* anyway.
<BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 =
size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Bill Bremmer RPT <BR>Madison, =
Wisconsin</FONT><FONT
size=2 Arial></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT><FONT =
size=2
Arial></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>