<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; = charset=us-ascii"> <TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2668" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><SPAN class=125515905-12082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>You said: <FONT color=#000000>In a C to C octave the lower 5th interval C = to G will be the same beat rate as the higher 4th interval G to C.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=125515905-12082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=125515905-12082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>As I continue practicing my aural tuning skills I'm discovering all kinds of = "Aha!" relationships. The above relationship is one of them. Which leads me to = today's naive question: Is this also true when the 4th & 5th are = switched? IE: In the C to C octave described above, is the lower 4th = interval, (C to F), then also the same beat rate as the higher 5th interval, (F to C)?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=125515905-12082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=125515905-12082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>Geoff Sykes</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=125515905-12082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>Assoc. Los Angeles</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=125515905-12082005><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=125515905-12082005><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=125515905-12082005><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr = align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B>On = Behalf Of </B>alan forsyth<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:08 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pianotech<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: newbie questions<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2>Too late, I'm already asleep ....zzzzzzzz</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2>AF</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2> PS Consider the following;</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"it would seem to me that there would = be opportunity for higher partials to be all over the place = "</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That is the very reason why you = should listen to them so that you CAN put them in their place. They are very = audible in the lower tenor and bearing scale.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"with the inharmonicity differences = in wire. I.e., a plain wire and wound wire. "</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Would this not be the very reason = that manufacturers prefer the scale design of low tension in the lower = tenor to that of equalizing breaking strain  as in Yamaha = GH1?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"I still don't see how you use that = beat speed to put the wire being tuned into your tuning pattern. "</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The second partial intersection of = the 5ths would fall in to the same region on the keyboard as the first partial = intersection of the other main intervals ; 3rds, 4ths and 6ths.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In a C to C octave the lower 5th = interval C to G will be the same beat rate as the higher 4th interval G to = C.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Once again</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>AF</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Not running for office, but for cover!</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=josephspiano@comcast.net href="mailto:josephspiano@comcast.net">Joseph Alkana</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 12, 2005 = 3:45 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: newbie = questions</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>AF,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Considering the spread of a fifth, = it would seem to me that there would be opportunity for higher partials to be = all over the place with the inharmonicity differences in wire. I.e., a = plain wire and wound wire. By my ears, the beats of the higher = partials are no where near double sometimes, but I haven't really got into it = yet. I still don't see how you use that beat speed to put the wire being = tuned into your tuning pattern. More info, please.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Joseph Alkana RPT</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=alan@forsythalan.wanadoo.co.uk href="mailto:alan@forsythalan.wanadoo.co.uk">alan forsyth</A> = </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 11, = 2005 6:40 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: newbie = questions</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2>The beats are twice the = speed so you can make a much more accurate judgment as to the correctness of = your interval.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial = size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2>AF</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=josephspiano@comcast.net href="mailto:josephspiano@comcast.net">Joseph Alkana</A> = </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August = 11, 2005 11:25 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: newbie = questions</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>AF,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And just exactly what would you = discern from hearing the second, or higher coincident partials? How = would you make use of the information at that point?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Just curious.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Joseph Alkana RPT</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: = 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=alan@forsythalan.wanadoo.co.uk href="mailto:alan@forsythalan.wanadoo.co.uk">alan = forsyth</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August = 11, 2005 2:57 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> newbie = questions</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>From Alan Barnyard's post: "5ths have such a slow beat = that they are hard for most to tune accurately, as a primary = interval"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2>It's much easier to = use 5ths by listening to the second intersection of = partials and not the first. However you will have to sensitize your hearing = to discern that point.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial = size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial = size=2>AF</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><= /BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>