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<DIV><FONT size=2>I should say as the pianos get bigger the number =
increases
(toward 0.0). In practice, I actually find that on concert grands =
I often
end up with a DOB setting of -.2.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>David Love</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=davidlovepianos@earthlink.net
href="mailto:davidlovepianos@earthlink.net">David Love</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> October 21, 2001 11:50 =
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: more on this =
temperament
thing</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>As a general rule I am finding that small pianos =
require an
entry of -.5 on the DOB and as the pianos get bigger that number
decreases. But you can measure the stretch before you =
start by
tuning a double octave (after entering the FAC numbers and saving), =
and
testing aurally to see if it is where you want it. The SAT uses =
A4 as
the fixed point so keep that in mind when you choose your test double
octave. I usually try and test the double octave to not include =
any
wound strings. If the double octave is too wide, input a =
negative number
on the DOB and change notes (step up, step down) to implement the
change. Test again. When you get it where you want it go =
ahead and
start tuning. When tuning with the SAT I start in the tenor and =
go up
(when tuning aurally, I start from the temperament and go down). =
When I
am done with the treble I usually direct tune the bass as the machine
sometimes has problems across the break and I don't always agree with =
its
choices for stretch in the bass. Jim Coleman has made several
contributions to the list regarding use of the DOB. I recommend =
you
search the archives and check them out. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>David Love</FONT> </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com
href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com">Farrell</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> October 21, 2001 11:11 =
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: more on this =
temperament
thing</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I would sure like to hear more on this topic. As a tuner still =
on a
steep learning curve, I wonder just what I should be doing with my =
octaves,
but I find that the SAT III is either right where I wish it to =
be, or
sometimes I do find that it seems to have calculated a tuning with =
too much
stretch, and I have to enter negative numbers in the DOB to slow the =
beating
down - occasionally quite a bit.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Terry Farrell <SPAN =
id=__#Ath#SignaturePos__></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=davidlovepianos@earthlink.net
href="mailto:davidlovepianos@earthlink.net">David Love</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, October 21, =
2001 11:25
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: more on this =
temperament
thing</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>My experience suggests that C8 at 43+ is not a =
conservative stretch but a fairly healthy one. To my ear, I =
usually
reduce the stretch (on the SATIII via the DOB).
On concert grands I seem to prefer it a bit under
40. On smaller grands and uprights, in the mid =
30's. Of
course the general scaling does make a difference. But
generally I find the standard setting on a SATIII over
stretches. I am curious what other people find.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>David Love</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=dm.porritt@verizon.net
href="mailto:dm.porritt@verizon.net">David M. Porritt</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> October 21, 2001 =
7:40
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: more on this =
temperament thing</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Bill:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You've talked quite a bit of your "tempered octaves" but as =
one who
has seen everything from 2:1 octaves to outrageously stretched =
octaves I
don't know what kind of stretch you're talking about. =
Could you
give us some numbers so we can know what you mean by tempered
octaves? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For example, when I tune a Steinway D my C6 is stretched to =
5.06,
C7 is 16.11, and C8 is 43.84. This is what I consider a
conservative tuning. What kind of numbers do you =
get? On any
piano, just measure your C6, 7, & 8 and tell us what model =
piano it
is, and how it stretches with your tempered octaves. That =
would be
very informative.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>dave<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>*********** REPLY =
SEPARATOR
***********<BR><BR>On 10/21/01 at 7:19 AM Billbrpt@AOL.COM
wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#000000 2px solid"><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In a message dated =
10/21/01 6:07:55
AM Central Daylight Time, davidlovepianos@earthlink.net (David =
Love)
writes: <BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">That being said, if the pianist needs an altered =
tuning
to create excitement, he should practice
more.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial =
color=#000000
size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>It's always been my belief, =
as a piano
technician that the better prepared the piano, the better =
equipped the
artist is. Remember that I have not advocated *HT* as =
such for
Jazz. To you, this implies *altered* tuning which means
something quite noticeably different and thus creates an
*interference* with what you do rather than provide an =
enhancement.
<BR><BR>I don't know if you can or have tried my EBVT but as I =
have
designed it (with Tempered Octaves), it is meant to enhance =
your
playing, not shock or disturb your musical sensibilities. =
It is
meant to provide definition, texture and clarity, not weird, =
jarring
and shocking dissonances. If the EBVT is still to =
*altered* for
you, I believe you might benefit from the Marpurg (also with =
my
Tempered Octaves system). I will give your piano an =
uncanny
clean, crisp and clear sound but absolutely will not create =
any
distinction between keys. <BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 =
face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Bill Bremmer RPT =
<BR>Madison,
Wisconsin</FONT><FONT size=2 =
Arial></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT><PRE>_____________________________
David M. Porritt
dporritt@mail.smu.edu
Meadows School of the Arts
Southern Methodist University
Dallas, TX 75275
_____________________________</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>