<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD><TITLE>Re: False = Beats in high treble after stringing</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=Windows-1252"> <META content=Word.Document name=ProgId> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4728.2300" name=GENERATOR> <META content="Microsoft Word 10" name=Originator><LINK href="cid:filelist.xml@01C32F49.CC84A8F0" = rel=File-List><o:SmartTagType name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype> <STYLE>  </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US style="tab-interval: .5in" vLink=purple = link=blue bgColor=white> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I recently tuned a 1913 M&H BB1 = which was rebuilt by Chris Demarse, et al in Michigan.  It is now in storage = in Florida awaiting sale.  This pianoprovided me with a standard of = false beat EXCELLENCE, and was my basis of comparison with my own first = restringing job.The M&H had only a couple of 8th octave strings which had hints = of false beats.  All else was essentially false beatless.  <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Good Job Chris, if you are = listening.  My own Yamaha DC2 is pretty close to that, but not that good.  Phil Bondi = tells me that the Baldwin grand which I helped him restring was also pretty close = to false beatless in the upper octaves.  So, from my limited = experience, I would have to vote for trying for NO false beats.  Reality, = however, will probably humble me again yet this evening when I get back to my own = restringing project.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dave Smith</DIV> <DIV>SW FL----- Original Message -----</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=tune4u@earthlink.net = href="mailto:tune4u@earthlink.net">Alan</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">'Pianotech'</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 10, 2003 = 1:14 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Rude Question was = False Beats ...</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Has there = ever been a single piano, new or old, expensive or cheap, that didn’t ANY = false-beating strings? I have never tuned a new, expensive grand, nor have I ever = tuned a concert piano or any 9-footer, and I’ve never seen a new Steinway. = All of these are kind of rare (non-existent) out here in the boonies so maybe = my question is rude and/or stupid. But I have seen a lot of pianos from = ancient beaters to crappy spinets to brand new </SPAN></FONT><st1:place><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">Baldwin</SPAN></FONT></st1:place><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> uprights = and almost new pianos of many makes.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’ve = never heard a wholly clean-sounding piano.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Have I just = been too sheltered, or—rude question—are false beats just part of the = territory, the imperfect science of piano building and the many compromises we put up = with.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am in my = bunker, flak jacket and helmet in place. Fire = away!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; = mso-no-proof: yes">Alan R. Barnard</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy; mso-no-proof: yes"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; = mso-no-proof: yes">Salem, MO</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma = size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Dave = Smith<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, June 10, 2003 = 10:33 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> = Pianotech<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: False Beats in = high treble after stringing</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: = 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial = size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for the thoughts = given so far.  I will attempt to achieve a "quiet mind" and then go after = the false beats again in a more methodical manner.  </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: = 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial = size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dave Smith</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial = size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">SW FL</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial = size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">PTG Associate</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: = 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: = medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt = 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: = medium none"> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial = size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message = ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV style="font-color: black"> <P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; MARGIN-LEFT: = 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> <A title=pmc303@ricochet.com href="mailto:pmc303@ricochet.com">Paul = McCloud</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT = face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org = href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">'Pianotech'</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT = face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:20 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT = face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> RE: False Beats in high treble after stringing<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT = face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial = color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">You might check to see how much downbearing there is over the = bridge.  A rocker gauge may not show it, but a bubble gauge or other more = sophisticated tool will.  It’s likely that there isn’t much downbearing = in that area.  I rebuilt a Ste. M some time ago, and was similarly = disappointed with the result, with all the false beats and such.  I used CA = instead of your epoxy, but did all the same things to get rid of the false = beats, to no avail.  When I used my Lowell gauge to check that area, = there wasn’t much downbearing at all.  I had to let it go at that.  FWIW.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial = color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">           = Paul McCloud</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial = color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">           = San Diego</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT = face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: = 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT = face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: = 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face=Tahoma = size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: = bold">From:</SPAN></B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] = <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Keith = McGavern<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, June 10, 2003 = 6:07 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Pianotech<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: = bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: False Beats in high treble after = stringing</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: = 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">At 9:09 PM -0400 6/9/03, = Dave Smith wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt" = type="cite" cite> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face=Arial = size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">... Can anyone offer = me advice on what to do next to reduce the false beats, short of unstringing = and recapping bridge, etc?  I would appreciate your help!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dave,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I am no expert in this = area, but will offer some thoughts has to how I would attempt to troubleshoot this = matter in my mind.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">To hopefully discover the cause:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">1) pick the worst offender<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2) mute the non-speaking = sections of that offender, listen.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">3) if false beat still = there, determine that there is side and down = bearing<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">4) if there is, determine = that the string equally leaves the both the bridge pin and the bridge<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">5) if it does, determine = that there is absolutely no movement in the bridge = pin<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">6) if all these prove to be = okay and the false beat has not dissipated, the way the string contacts the = pressure bar is certainly a possibility for inducing a false beat.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">7) And if after verifying = all these conditions are as they should be, replacing the string is another option.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">You might not be able to = eliminate all of the false beats, but it is very possible they can be blended so = that no one false beat stands out above the others. When tuning pianos in = the field, blending is utilized by me quite often to mask inherent = discrepancies that will never be properly addressed.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">These are my thoughts on = the matter, Dave, on chasing down the worst offending false beat situation.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Rest easy in this matter. = Frustration in not the master, you are.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times = New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Keith McGavern<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR> <P><FONT size=2>---<BR>Incoming mail is certified Virus = Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>Version: 6.0.488 / = Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003<BR></FONT></P><BR> <P><FONT size=2>---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus = Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>Version: 6.0.488 / = Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: = 6/5/2003<BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>