<DIV> <DIV>Good Point, Richard! You are correct that the dealer should know the quality of the product its selling. Dealers make their money by being the middle person. So there is always the motivation to buy cheap and sell dear. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most consumers assume that piano dealers' pianos have been checked out by a professional and so are a safe bet. But any tech whose been around very long knows that many dealers do the absolute bare minimum to prep their pianos prior to sale.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My hats off to the minority of dealers who actually pay to have a competent technician properly inspect and set up the pianos prior to delivery to the person's home!<BR><BR><B><I>Richard Moody <remoody@midstatesd.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR> <DIV><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004>Concerning clients who bought defective pianos</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004>You wrote, </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004>    "<FONT face=Arial>Both were bought from dealers who sent them there to Juarez."</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004>Red Flag.  It is the dealers that who are liable.  They sold defective merchandise.  If they knew it,  it is fraud.  If the work was a disaster as you state how could the dealers not know, which gets close to sales fraud.  Whatever, they are responsible for what they sell.  They (dealers) can sue who did the work, but it may be too late after they sold them. (this does not excuse shoddy work but if dealers take it in and then sell it that is almost getting worse)  Were these dealers in Calif?  Calif has very strict and specific laws about this.  How long ago?  Less  than 30 days ago?  If so, they (the buyers) may have rights no other states offer.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004>      Before you start work on the piano you might want to advise your clients they may have legal rights and should consult a lawyer. You might want to consult a lawyer before you start work.  Whatever, take plenty of pictures.  The dealer should have had a tech check out the pianos. So should the buyer.  Your clients should have a lawyer check out their case.  By not knowing to advise them, you become much like the dealer who "didn't know."</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004>Professional ethics is another matter.  It is better not to insinuate that a business in your profession does shoddy work until you sit down and have coffee with them first.  And it looks like someone got an invitation to lunch already. :)  Stuff has been said here (Does the list really need to know?) and the sad part is from piano tuners who aren't even sure what they are talking about; that if directed towards me, I would demand a retraction to my satisfaction. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004>     Defamation is still a crime and when you write it and then publish it, it becomes libel. And the publisher can be held liable which in this case is PTG.  Does PTG have a written policy or bylaw that says "defamatory posts are not permitted, and are the sole responsibility of the poster?"  If not do I want to be part of such a list?   Do I want to be part of a list where "esteemed colleagues" get derogatory on, well ........on un esteemed colleagues?  So you see how deep it can get just because of a thoughtless rant(s)... er excuse me, tocsin.  </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004> </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004><FONT size=2> </FONT><FONT size=3>And why do we have to go through it?<BR></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004>Richard Moody </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN class=850002106-30082004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Erwinspiano@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:03 AM<BR><B>To:</B> pianotech@ptg.org; caut@ptg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Jaurez Cosmetic piano restoration<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT id=role_document face=Arial size=2> <DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial size=2><FONT face=arial size=2> </FONT><FONT face=arial>   To All my esteemed colleagues</FONT><FONT face=arial size=2><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial>    Probably all of you are aware of a rebuilding outfit across the border in Juarez, Mexico.</FONT><FONT face=arial size=2><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial>  I've seen two recently "rebuilt" Stwys that were a disaster with one exception.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><BR><BR>Dale,<BR><BR>    Hi. I'm the owner of the U.S. brokerage known as SAMA. I took over ownership this spring, and before that have worked as a consultant for the company. This company operates a plant in Juarez, across the border from El Paso.<BR><BR>   First off, I'd like to ask you where the connection is between these two pianos and the "outfit".</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>  <FONT size=3>>>> Booth clients confirmed these pianos had been rebuilt in Juarez. <BR><SPAN class=850002106-30082004><FONT face="MS Sans Serif">[]]  </FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial size=2>   Second, I'll point out that SAMA does not sell pianos.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>>> I didn't say they did. Both were bought from dealers who sent them there to Juarez.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT lang=0 face="MS Sans Serif" size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR>Ryan Sowers, RPT Puget Sound Chapter<br>Pianova Piano Service<br>Olympia, WA<p> <hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/msgr/evt=26088/*http://messenger.yahoo.com">Y! Messenger</a> - Communicate in real time. Download now.