<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type="text/css"></style><title>Re: Cheap laminated board, was Blüthner soundboard</title></head><body> <blockquote type="cite" cite> <blockquote><font size="-1" color="#0000FF">Ron Overs wrote:</font></blockquote> <blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote><font size="-1" color="#0000FF"><</font> Yes, the company you are referring to is Samick<font color="#0000FF"> (is there another playing this game?)</font>. The irony of Samick's attempts to make a laminated panel appear to be solid<font color="#0000FF"> (and beautifully quarter cut at that)</font> is that the laminated panels they use are 100% spruce, with all laminations made from quartered stock<font color="#0000FF"> (of the ones I have inspect - out of the piano)</font>. While many of their pianos produce a tone which is less than desirable, I don't believe it is the laminated panel which is causing the problem. It's the numerous other piano manufacturing factors which they choose to ignore.<font size="-1" color="#0000FF"> ></font></blockquote> <blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote><font size="-1" color="#0000FF">The one I saw had what looked like mahogany in the middle layer (or some kind of reddish dark wood). It might have been made by samick, but the stenciled brand was "Klavier" (I guess just to make it sound German :-)  ).</font></blockquote> </blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>Ron O. - Exactly, wherever a factory is producing stencil named pianos, it should be the first sign to be wary of their product quality.</div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite> <blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote><font size="-1" color="#0000FF">Marcel Carey, RPT</font></blockquote> </blockquote> <div> </div> <div><br></div> <div>Hi Marcel,</div> <div><br></div> <div>I am not familiar with stencil name you mention. While the laminated boards I have seen from Samick all have been 100% spruce, nothing would surprise me. I have inspected panels from the Toyo piano factory where a rubbish core was covered with a thin layer of pretty spruce<font color="#0000FF"> (and there are bound to be other examples)</font>. However, one thing to be wary of when examining laminated sound board panels, is that those laminates with end grain showing at the edge will always look significantly darker than those which are meeting the edge with parallel grain. This may cause a panel to look as if it has a rubbish core when in fact it may be spruce all through.</div> <div><br></div> <div>As an example, if you look at the larger overhead image of the rear of our piano no. 003,</div> <div><br></div> <div>http://www.overspianos.com.au/bkcl.html</div> <div><br></div> <div>when you scroll to the bottom of the image you will see the widening trench we machined into the sound board panel just in from the inner edge of the inner rim<font color="#0000FF"> (it gets wider as it progresses around to that area adjacent to note A1)</font>. This piano produces a fuller-toned low bass than a standard Steinway D or a Bösendorfer Imperial<font color="#0000FF"> (and yes we have A-B tested it with more than one example of both instruments)</font>, since the panel is extremely active on account of the trenched perimeter around the back. The panel we used for this sound board is standard Samick. It is a five laminate all spruce panel, and surprisingly every laminate is from quarter cut stock. The upper and lower laminates are quite thin at just over 0.5 mm. The center three are all of uniform thickness to produce a panel which is 8 mm thick. The trench cuts into the center laminate, who's grain angle is parallel to the side of the piano. The second and forth laminates run perpendicular to the side. You will notice that the second laminate visible at the edge of the trench looks quite a bit darker than the top and center laminates since it has basically end grain running out into the walls of the trench.</div> <div><br></div> <div>While this board is the third laminated panel we have used, I am impressed with their performance so far. The next piano we complete will also use a Samick laminated panel. However, amongst the several other minor changes, I am planning to make panels with just three laminates from piano no. 5. While it may be standard practice for commercial grade factories to make panels with a thin layer of pretty stuff on top and bottom, while the remainder is used for the center laminates, we will be using select material for all laminates.</div> <div><br></div> <div>Ron O.</div> <x-sigsep><pre>-- </pre></x-sigsep> <div >           <span ></span>      OVERS PIANOS<br>        Grand Piano Manufacturers<br> _____________________________<br> <br> Web:    http://overspianos.com.au<br> Email:  mailto:ron@overspianos.com.au</div> <div>_____________________________</div> </body> </html>