<HTML> Maybe Bill had been on the list before, but I don't recall seeing any other posts from him.  It's clear that he knows a lot about tuning, but that first post to Conrad was a real 'in your face' attack.  I think a lot of us read it and thought,"Geeze, this guy has a big stick up his butt." (maybe not those particular words)  And that's what was (is) remembered when we see new posts. That original flame, in my opinion, is the root of the ongoing tensions. Seems to this recently thawed Downeaster anyway that the topic of tempering something causes blood to boil is just a bit too ironic. Am I missing something here? Gordon Large, RPT Maine (ready to take the gloves off) Antares writes: Gordon and List, We have had this before some months ago, and it became quite annoying. What happens now is exactly the same pattern as before... Snarling and biting, and then the return...more snarling, sputtering, biting etc etc. What makes it piquant is the use of moralistic and decency values to make "the others " look like un-ethical, un-educated, maybe even un-American". I live in Europe, but I am quite familiar with these kind of people, you find them everywhere in the world, and they can be a real pain. In this case, I believe you can never win. The past has already proven it. It is tit for tat, and then tat for tit and then...... So, there are only a few options left. Because I like to simplify things I'll try to name them: No 1. The people involved in this fight on the List go on and on and on, until it fades away in a natural way, just like other times. It has to, otherwise the List gets blown up, but that won't happen, because the majority of onlookers and lurkers will step in and change the course. In any case, it is a painful situation. No 2. A number of subscribers might get so disgusted by the public fight, that they will unsubscribe, either for ever, or on a temporary basis. This too has happened a number of times. If this happens, it is kind of tragic, because it should not be necessary and, as the storm will blow over anyway, it is for nothing, really. No. 3 As this forum is free, nobody can ask nor suggest the removal or withdrawal of a certain subscriber. If the worst offender is so hard headed that he or she is not aware of his or her nasty behavior, then it is obvious that the storm will continue, and, might even get worse for some time. It happened before, like it happens now. No. 4 So, I have personally come to this conclusion: If it becomes more than clear that we all are in the midst of the cyclone, as described in point No 1., there is a very quite and reasonable method to immediately get away from the turbulence: we all have advanced e-mailers or at least a delete key. If our e-mailers are advanced enough, we can make use of so called filters, and thereby deliberately filter out the person of whom we think is the cause of the storm. If such a filter is not yet available, we can, by recognizing the name of offenders, with a harmless push of our left ,or right, index finger (or when in anger with even a fist!) depress the delete key, and with this peaceful gesture get rid of unbalance in our homes and minds. It has been mentioned before in the past. It is now being mentioned in the present time, right in the middle of the storm. No. 5 We must take into consideration the possibility that there are always a number of people who thrive on aggression. If we have those on "our" List, it is inevitable that the storm will stay for some time. In that case, delete them too! Now...what have I forgotten.......   Regards, Antares  </HTML>