<HTML>In a message dated 11/4/01 5:37:19 AM Central Standard Time, dnereson@dimensional.com (Dave Nereson) writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I also have what people call "perfect pitch".  It's the biggest misnomer in the world of music.  Nobody has perfect pitch.  </BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks so much for writing this, Dave.  A lot of things were brought up in the recent temperament discussion, including what may be meant by "just intonation".  If we all go around saying we have "perfect pitch" and always play and think in "just intonation", we only create more confusion and misunderstanding. Let's also consider that through the centuries, the pitch standard was never A-440 as it has been since about 1920.  So, Beethoven's *D* that he held in his head may have been our *Db* today.  The reason why stringed instruments have the notes C-G-D-A-E-B is because of the precedents set by very early music.  The simple keys of the keyboard also developed at that time. By the time Bach composed, the notion of Key Color had been fully developed and continues through today.  Whether consciously and knowingly or not, people *assign* a particular character to each key of the cycle of 5ths and this really dictates the choice of one key signature or another in which to write any particular music. People still do this today and this is why a mild, Victorian type temperament apparently works on the modern piano for music of any era.  The premise behind the use of ET is that only it can serve all kinds of music because of its neutrality.  It is my belief that ET goes further than it needs to in this regard because it erases all distinctions found in cycle of 5ths based tempering. There are certain types of writing which lend themselves to the simple keys, certain that lend themselves to the remote and others in between.  One contributor noted that Beethoven's 9th symphony modulates to Gb at one point.  While being familiar with the piece and also having performed it both as a string player and vocalist, I don't have a score handy to look at. But, I can assure anyone and everyone that when a piece such as this modulates to such a remote key, as far remote from the original key as possible, the writing will be distinctly different and more intense from that of the rest of the piece.  This would be correctly and appropriately reflected by the piano tuned in a cycle of 5ths based temperament.   I have witnessed such agreements in written music consistently from the 17th through the end of the 20th Centuries.  For study and rehearsal purposes, the piano (or any other keyboard) is and always has been used.  This, I believe has influenced virtually every form of composition.  So, do instrumentalists play differently in the remote keys? There probably would be a greater use of vibrato by instrumentalists in the remote keys which completely negates any and all ideas about so-called Perfect Pitch or Just Intonation.  Pitch during intense and/or wide vibrato is on the order of +/- 20 cents.  This is analogous to the very rapid beating of 3rds & 6ths found in the remote keys of any Cycle of 5ths based temperament. There has been a good amount of discussion about "Perfect Pitch" on this List in the past.  Anyone interested should search the archives.  There were people who claimed that some individuals have an extraordinarily accurate sense of pitch.  Still, I believe this is due to practice, not a magical gift.  I also believe that there is *no one* who is absolutely *perfect* in this regard and that is why I avoid using the term altogether. Musicians who play in tune and are skilled with their instruments are rare and special people.  So are people who compose music rather than only interpret it.  How these abilities are developed may be beyond the scope of this list and any of our conception and understanding.  Really, being myself a life long musician, I'd just describe the whole choice of key, pitch and use of vibrato issues as the ability to *listen* and to create art without really needing to have a scientific explanation for any of it. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin</HTML>