<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1491" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; = FONT-FAMILY: Verdana" bottomMargin=7 bgColor=#ffffff leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 = rightMargin=7> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Geoff,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your luck has apparently been worse = than mine.  ;-)  Yes, when water with any ionic content hits a = board, you have gizillions of tiny "soft" shorts, as you suggest, and that's = usually enough to thoroughly confuse any logic circuitry.  However, if there = aren't any static sensitive circuits mixed in with high voltage circuits, the = device will usually only experience "brain drain" and won't get zapped.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>About the hard drive, I remember the = bad ol' days of hard drives -- back in the MFM and RLL days  (Might Function = Minimally and Run Life Limited).  I often received a desperate phone call = from a fellow grad student, wanting me to render aid after a hard drive = crash.  I would always tell the person to shut down the hard drive RIGHT NOW and = not to run it again until I could get there.  The drive would frequently = be making dragging and scraping noises.  Even so, I could still recover a = large chunk of the data.  The drive was only good for perhaps an hour or so of = runtime after making noise, and the failure was progressive.  I would = always autopsy the hard drive afterwards and find tons of debris in it.  = Modern hard drives don't crash quite so brilliantly as the old ones, but I = remember recently replacing a 30GB drive in a friends laptop.  There was not = data loss, but the drive was definitely making noise, hence my recommendation = to back up the data NOW and to order in a replacement drive.  She used the = drive for another couple of days while the new drive was on order.  It = never went "down" but continued to make dragging noises (perhaps from a munched = head on an unused platter).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The lesson from all of this is that a = hard drive can indeed run with dust, debris, etc. inside.  In fact there is an = internal filter that catches debris as it is generated during = deterioration of the internal works.  However, when debris is afoot, the = drive's life expectancy is VERY limited.  I'm not saying that there should = ever be any reason to break the seal on a hard drive.  But just the same, = if it's necessary, it can be done.  Just not for long -- just long enough = to pull off the data.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Having said this, my suggestion was = merely to bleed distilled water in and out of the hard drive through the filtered ventillation port to rinse out the fluids from the inside.  I know = this sounds awful, but the water can all be boiled off at room temperature in = a complete vacuum.  There are lots of people with vacuum pumps, = including automotive air conditioning service companies and high school physics teachers.  ;-)  Alternatively, take the top off of the platter = housing, rinse, and dry.  Then run the thing open, long enough to = recover all the data.  Believe it or not, I've run dying hard = drives open before, just to see them work.  They could function that way.  = This would probably be the approach I'd take if my HD took a dunk in the toilet.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But then again, THESE THINGS SHOULD = ONLY BE DONE BY QUALIFIED, PROFESSIONAL DATA RECOVERY PERSONNEL!!!  (My disclaimer.)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peace,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sarah</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=ivories.52@earthlink.net = href="mailto:ivories.52@earthlink.net">Geoff Sykes</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">'Pianotech'</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 21, 2005 = 1:48 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> WAIT! NO! - RE: When = your day goes in the toilet</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>When you get an electronic = device wet, for whatever reason, and it was turned on at the time, you will be lucky = if it lives at all. Almost all liquids hold dissolved solids likes salts and = minerals and a whole bunch of other stuff that is usually conductive. = A wet device usually dies when power is applied to components that have = contacts shorted out with these dissolved conductive solids. What happens is = the contacts short out and delicate components go "paff", kablooie. If = this were to happen to your TV you would get sparks, smoke and = possibly fire. On a cell phone, a PDA or a laptop it's just quietly dead. = </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>So, on most devices, <U>without = hard drives</U>, that were not turned on at the time of their dunking, the = first thing you DON'T want to do is turn it on. What you do want to do is = quickly remove the battery, open up the device, (carefully), and rinse it = out in DISTILLED water. Make sure it is ABSOLUTELY DRY, (give it a couple of days), before you replace the battery and turn it on again. = </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>Now - regarding hard drives. = <STRONG>DON'T EVER BREAK THE SEAL!</STRONG> <STRONG><U>EVER!</U></STRONG> They're = sealed for a reason. Hard drives are assembled in a "clean" environment and any = teensy tiny invisible speck of microscopic dust that gets into one will = destroy the platter, and your data, guaranteed. The magnetic pickups inside a = hard disk drive don't actually touch the platter but actually ride on an = extremely thin wave of air that is created by the spinning of the disk itself. = Should anything bigger than a molecule or so get trapped between = the pickup head and the platter it is going to act like sandpaper and score = the platter making your data absolutely irretrievable. Once again, = <STRONG>DO NOT EVER BREAK THE SEAL ON A HARD DRIVE! </STRONG></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN = class=484091405-21052005><STRONG></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>Instead, as a protective = measure, back up your data frequently. And, should you ever find yourself with a = non-functional drive that contains data that you absolutely can't live without, find = a company that specializes in data retrieval. They can retrieve data = from almost anything. The good ones can probably even retrieve data from a hard = drive that's been opened. But they're not cheap. </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>-- Geoff Sykes</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>Assoc. LA Chapter</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr = align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B>On = Behalf Of </B>Sarah Fox<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 20, 2005 4:25 = PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pianotech<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: When your day goes in the toilet<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>PS I even resurrected a laptop = computer that had a glass of wine spilled into it (the computer I'm using = now).  However, if anything liquid gets into a hard drive (which = fortunately it didn't), the hard drive would need to be replaced....  unless.....  to rescue your data, at least...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(1) Put the hard drive into a = container of distilled water.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(2) Slowly pull a partial vacuum on = the hard drive to draw out the air inside, and sloooowly release the = vacuum.  (The water will flow into the hard drive through the filtered vent hole.)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(3) Shake water around inside the = hard drive.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(4) Remove from the water and = slooooowly pull a vacuum again, which will cause the water to come back = out.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(5) Repeat a few = times </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(6) Vacuum out the water, and draw = a hard, prolonged vacuum to completely evacuate all remaining = water.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(7) Pray to the computer = gods.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(8) Reinstall and power = up.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(9) Pull your data off of the hard = drive and load it onto a replacement.  Why?  The internal debris = would have been scattered from the filter, so the hard drive's life expectancy = might not be so good.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(10) Send me an email to tell me if = it worked.  :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peace,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sarah</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=sarah@graphic-fusion.com href="mailto:sarah@graphic-fusion.com">Sarah Fox</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 20, 2005 = 7:02 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: When your day = goes in the toilet</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi James,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For your Nokia and anybody else's = near-flush experience, take heart that most electronic devices CAN be brought back to life if you do it the right way:  (1) = Remove batteries.  (2) Submerse in a container of distilled = water.  (3) Open the case to expose the insides.  (4) Flush with a couple = more fresh rinses of distilled water.  (5) Blow out the = excess water and let dry (*thoroughly*).  (6) Reassemble and power = up.  (Why is distilled water different from tap water?  It doesn't have = any salts in it and therefore doesn't conduct electricity.)  I = had done this several times throughout the years and then ran into some guy = who was an electronics technician for the Navy.  He had used the = exact same method on a daily basis (and with great success) on = equipment that got dunked in seawater.  ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peace,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sarah</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=pianoman@accessus.net = href="mailto:pianoman@accessus.net">James Grebe</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 20, = 2005 7:34 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: When your = day goes in the toilet</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Maybe your pocket PC came back, = but cell phones do not after being dunked in the toilet.  I had that = experience and when the battery gets wet if has a dye that shows = it has been wet on the battery and it is NOT covered under warranty and = the cell phone was unfixable.  I had to go back to my old cell = phone because the new one, though only 1 month old it had to be = replaced and they could not fix it. I did not have replacement = insurance.  I used to have a Motorola pager and it went through the washing = machine but after 1 day of drying out it did come back.  Praise be = to Motorola and not Nokia.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim</FONT></DIV> <DIV>James Grebe<BR>Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair<BR>Creator = of Handsome Hardwood Caster Cups, piano benches, writing instruments<BR>(314) 608-4137<BR><A = href="http://www.JamesGrebe.com">WWW.JamesGrebe.com</A><BR>1526 Raspberry Lane<BR>Arnold, MO 63010<BR>BECOME WHAT YOU = BELIEVE!<BR><A = href="mailto:pianoman@accessus.net">pianoman@accessus.net</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: = 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=Piannaman@aol.com href="mailto:Piannaman@aol.com">Piannaman@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 19, = 2005 11:32 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> When your day = goes in the toilet</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Verdana = color=#000000 size=3> <DIV>From the files of "Embarassing but True."  If you = can't laugh at yourself, who CAN you laugh at?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I finish tuning this lady's piano, and the diuretic = effects of the morning's coffee kick in.  "M'am, may I use your facilities?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Yes, no problem."  She shows me to the door.  = </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm wearing my shop apron.  Don't know why, probably = because of the convenient pocket space it affords me to put things = like my pocket PC in(foreshadowing here...)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Business done, apron back in place--without my IPAQ, = which has fallen into the (fortunately freshly flushed) toilet.  = Flushed for most of the day were appointments, Tunelab, contacts, and = map functions.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Things to be thankful for: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My wonderful wife, who offered me personalized GPS = service via my cell phone from her job at the university.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I tune mostly by ear, anyway.  (4 of the five jobs = consisted of lowering the pitch on new pianos, 2 by over 20 cents = each).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Since my day was so busy, I'd made out all of today's = invoices in advance, so at least I had everyone's address = handy.</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SD cards, which saved EVERYTHING today.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Water dries out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Computers can come back from a dunking. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's been a long day.  Time for a glass o' = vino.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dave Stahl</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> = <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BL= OCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>