This is a multipart message in MIME format ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Wim, It's possible your problem is in the tuning pin. IMHO...You have= to have an understanding of what is going on with the= string/tuning pin. (And you may already do all of the following= things) Making pitch changes with your tuning hammer and then= pounding 12 times to see if it stays in tune is going to result= in unsatisfactory results. When you pound (I prefer key/hammer= action mf) you should be using your tuning hammer at the same= time. In other words, slight impact pressure on the tuning= hammer with some key/hammer action can move the string and the= pin the little amount you want. Tiny changes in pin/string= movement is what your after. Remember any kind of change in= pitch needs going over again. When I'm fine tuning, I'm making= 1 cent or less changes usually with just some impact pressure= increasing slightly in force with key/hammer action. If the= slight impact pressure doesn't put it where I want I will have= to make a tiny change in the tuning pin which will happen with a= little more impact pressure. The idea that you must come above= the pitch and pound it down into tune aint going to make it in= fine tuning. If that string is more than 1 cent, I will tune it= several times, tuning all strings in the unison as many times as= it takes. I'm tuning unisons as I go and I use a SAT III with= minimal checks. David Ilvedson ----- Original message ----------------------------------------> From: <Wimblees@aol.com> To: <caut@ptg.org> Received: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:23:58 EDT Subject: Re: Why a string goes out of tune. In a message dated 4/12/04 9:21:15 PM Central Daylight Time,= claviers@nxs.net writes: Jim: First you say: "This means that no matter how hard you pound, you will NOT= equalize the tension between speaking lengths and string tails. = You will break something before you can pound hard enough to do= that. What you WILL do is cause it to move if it is about ready= to move anyway." So I asked, if you don't pound, (or play softly), will the string= move any way. So you answered: No, Wim, I am NOT saying playing the note softly will equalize= the tension across the bridge. You know that. I said pounding will cause it= to move if it is about ready to move anyway. If the tension is not= equalized across the bridge, but the string is about ready to move, but you= play softly, nothing will happen. But if you do pound, or if the= pianist pounds, then it will move, and the pitch of the speaking length= will change. So does this mean I should pound to equalize the string? If I= don't pound, and the string doesn't equalize across the bridge,= then when the pianist plays hard and does move the string, then= the piano will be out of tune. "Now consider the fact that you have a whole bunch of strings= whose tensions are only partially equalized across the bridge, because there is= no way you can completely equalize it. All it takes is for the relative= humidity to change, the bridge to swell or shrink, or the temperature to= change so that the difference in expansion coefficient between wood and steel= will cause the string to slip a microscopic amount at the bridge, or someone= to pound the key; the string will move at the bridge, and your perfect= unison tuning will be spoiled. I think this makes lots of sense." To me you're saying two different things. On the one hand you're= saying not to pound, because the string will move across the= bridge anyway. But you're also saying the string won't move= across the bridge until you (or the pianist) plays loud. So what= is a piano tuner to do? Tune softly, and let the strings not= move across the bridge, or play loud, and move those strings. The other thing you're saying is that a little change in= temperature or humidity will cause a string to go out of tune. I= can accept that to some degree. I saw your demonstration of that= at one of the conventions. But you were taking a hair drier to a= string on a mini back. On the concert stage, most of the time a= piano is not going to be subjected to that kind of extreme= changes. I would think that having the string equalized would= prevent most microscopic differences. Now granted, pounding to equalize tension, and playing so you can= hear the note, are two different things. I never said I listened= to a pounding note as the final answer. All I said is that I= pound to set the string and the pin. What makes sense to me is that if I don't pound every note, to= get every string to equalize across the bridge, I'm asking for= trouble. Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/14/7c/d9/44/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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