Thanks Don, I always appreciate your opinion. (worth considerably more than two loonies!) Honestly, I'd never given thought to the durability of the wooden shanks themselves. You didn't suggest a lifespan (years)for shanks from new, but I'm guessing they should be good for several decades anyhow? Regarding knuckles and pinning, I agree entirely. In fact, a concert instrument is about the only piano where the knuckles/pinning "outlast" the hammers (3 Years). On most of our pianos, knuckles and pinning are beyond reconditioning long before the hammers are replaced (7 - 15 years), and certainly need replacement. ABEL will replace the knuckles for 136 euros and re-bush/re-pin the shanks for 105 euros. (I think the euro and US dollar are fairly close) Add about 195e for felt recovering for a total of 436 euros, plus/minus the currency exchange, shipping and insurance. Thanks for mentioning Wally Brooks, I think he offers a remarkable service, not to mention, a wealth of knowledge. He will also select hammers for you according to your target weights. I had, and am still considering ordering a pre-hung set from Wally. Here's the breakdwon: Abel hammers, shanks & flanges: $599.00 US. Boring, all trims (to weight) and installation; add $248.00 US for a total of about $847.00 US. On the 18 year-old C-7 in question, I would expect either the Abel reconditioning or the Brooks "bolt-in" replacements to offer a "similar" result, less of course Brook's weight customizations. Both offer a distinct "flavor" option (as one may prefer, or not) when compared with the factory "ready-to-install" replacements. One at about $450.00 plus, and the other around $850.00. (what does a set of Yamaha pre-hungs run $US?) The ultimate however, I would agree, is to do all the work "custom" yourself. Taking Wally's parts at about $600.00, from my records it takes me at least one 1/2 day to prepare hammers & shanks (after jig set-up; Boring: (.5h) Tail-length: (.5h)Coving: (.25h) Arcing: (.25h - .5h) Tapering: (.5h)), and another 1/2 day to install the hammers. After which is shank trim, tail-shape refinement and travel, twist & space... some of which would be required with the ready-to-install options listed above. To be honest, during a normal work-week (interuptions and all), if I could accomplish all of the above with 12 hours labor over a 2 or 3 day period, I would be quite content (perhaps even surprised). Everyone should calculate the "custom" option according to their individual labor cost, though I suspect, (including materials) somewhere between 1.75 and 2 times the cost of the Brook's pre-hung option, and perhaps as much as 4 times the Abel "reconditioning" option. Nonetheless, it is often the best option. Sorry I've already gone on too long Don, so let me wrap up. Regarding boring your own hammers; "agreed," it's just too much fun to give up, and to this point I haven't had to. My curiousity runs beyond my own shop however (being why I've typed all this at a blistering 9 or 10 wpm), and wonder how these options may effect CAUT's in general. Intuitive parts replacement is one of our essential and routine tasks. We have a variety of instruments (and quantity as you've noted) with different qualities and requirements. If the "factory renewing" of parts (as offered by ABEL) turns out to be a practical option, we would then have at least four distinct "tricks in the bag" for hammer renewal; manufacturer's ready-to-install original, after-market ready-to-install, after-market original component renewal, and all the varieties/permutations of custom "in-house" replacement. Each of the options above (as demonstrated) has a distinct price increment, and a distinct degree of technical involvement (labor/time). I'm very excited about this "new" option, if it works out. Though In reality, few pianos we have would get this treatment, but more likely, something like this: 1962 L (teflon): "a full TW analysis and custom after-market parts replacement for this one." 1988 B: "a new set of NY S&S hammers (unbored), shanks and flanges and a custom installation for this one." 1991 C-3: "Abel factory re-felting, knuckles, bushings & pins for this piano." etc. Thanks again for taking the time to chew on this with me, and your insightful comments. kind regards, Mark Cramer, Brandon University -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Don Mannino Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 6:13 PM To: 'College and University Technicians' Subject: RE: hammer re-felting, and what's bugging me! Mark, If I may put my 2 loonies worth in here . . . Points I would consider when deciding whether to refelt or replace parts; - Hammer shanks get weak and soft with age. This may not always be a bad thing, but at some point they become too soft to support the hammers properly, and the pianos looses it's fortissimo (Mamma Mia, the piano, shesa losta her fortissimo!). The shanks become too rubbery, and the hammers flex around. - When hammers are worn, knuckles are worn. Yes, it varies some, but I would want to at least replace the knuckle skin when recovering hammers. The work and effort involved there might make shank replacement more attractive. - Action centers in practice room pianos also sometimes get sloppy, and certainly rebushing is not an easy job to do really nice and firm and consistent. If you have worn bushings together with worn knuckles, it seems to me that the new shanks are a no-brainer. - You know, Wally offers pre-hung hammers also! It's just a matter of sending him samples and he will supply the replacements nicely hung on new shanks for you! That certainly is another option. Personally, I enjoy drilling and hanging hammers. But of course I don't work in a college where so many sets are needed. Don Mannino RPT _______________________________________________ caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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