[CAUT] Sacrifice (was tuners- technology)

[David Ilvedson]

If I hear an aural problem with my SAT III assisted tunings it is mainly in single octaves and for that reason it is what I keep an ear on.   I suspect the a lot of the tuning problems are where I place the SAT.   I can move it around and get different readings.   Do any of you SAT users find this?    I remember Jim Coleman Sr. mentioning the big thing in moving ETDs further on is their mic quality/pickup etc.

In a related issue.   Ed brings up the issue of progressing fast beating intervals and their, in his opinion, less of importance in the overall tuning scheme.   I believe Steinway teaches a sort of 4th/5ths kind tuning, which would probably mean less importance of fast beating interval progression...Can anyone explain a "Steinway" style tuning?   I'm interested in what they actually teach for tuning.   Maybe someone on the List has been trained there...?

David Ilvedson




----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: <A440A@aol.com>
To: <caut@ptg.org>
Received: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:43:16 EST
Subject: [CAUT] Sacrifice (was tuners- technology)


>David  writes:

><<  The
>problem, I believe, lies in the fact that they are programmed to select
>a certain partial (or in the case of the VT a certain balance of
>partials).  But frequently, those need to be fudged a little.  This is
>most obvious at the tenor break where inharmonicity spikes up and in
>order to keep a good thirds progression, the notes often need to be
>tuned a little flatter.  >>

>Greetings, 
>   Hmmm,  This suggests that the pianist will be more sensitive to the 
>evenness of the thirds than other intervals, and I have not always found that to be 
>the case.  On smaller pianos, I often need to let the thirds lose that perfect 
>progression of decreasing beat rate speeds in order to maintain the same 
>sound to my octaves as they pass over the bass break.  I have never had a pianist 
>complain about this inconsistancy, but when I was  getting a smooth decrease 
>in the thirds (which the SAT will usually do), at the expense of the octave, I 
>did get complaints,(sometimes).  The problem tends to show up an octave below 
>this break when that "fudging" requires even more flatness to keep the single 
>octave acceptable and then the double octave has a noticeable roll to it.   
>   Within tolerances, I think the eveness of the thirds is more for the aural 
>tuners benefit than the pianist's. It seems to be most useful in checking the 
>accuracy of ET, but beyond that, it makes little musical difference,(again, 
>within tolerances).  I don't know of a pianist alive that could tell that, say, 
>F#-A# is beating the same speed as the adjacent G-B or F-A, especially at the 
>slow speeds found in the 3rd octave.  It is simply below the threshold of 
>perception unless one is specifically trained AND looking for it. 
>   All of the above applies to ET.  Since I have found so many customers that 
>greatly prefer a more "Victorian" ET than an absolute clinical one, I don't 
>worry about sacrificing the thirds progression in ET before I compromise any of 
>the others. There isn't anything particularly musically magical about 13.7 
>cents wide. 
>Regards,  
>  
>Ed Foote RPT 
>http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html
>www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html
> 
>_______________________________________________
>caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives