[CAUT] Sacrifice (was tuners- technology)

[Otto Keyes]

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Re: [CAUT] Sacrifice (was tuners- technology)Fred, et all,

This was what I was getting at in a previous response to the =
"jumpiness..." thread which this evolved from. -- see snip below --  I =
must admit though, that I don't recall Virgil's assertion, or Jim C's =
experimentation.  Since I'm constantly checking over the S&S D's (used =
for everything, since we have no dedicated hall or instruments), I have =
their tunings stored in Tunelab (formerly SAT & then RCT).  Running =
through the pianos checking open unisons against the stored tuning I =
often found the unison clean, but drifting slightly, so would check =
individual strings, only to find them individually "in tune".  Aural =
checks confirmed the solidity of the tuning, but the EDT still saw the =
un-muted unison as drifting slightly.  Always wondered about that, so =
this thread has been interesting.

Otto

<><>
What I find interesting with any ETD that I've tried, is that checking =
individual strings of a clean, at-pitch unison with the ETD will give a =
clean reading at the proper pitch.  However, checking the open unison, =
the ETD will sometimes indicate that it is slightly sharp or flat.  Has =
anyone else observed this?  This again points out the need for good =
aural skills --- but I sure like the TLPocket!
<><>
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Fred Sturm=20
  To: College and University Technicians=20
  Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 5:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [CAUT] Sacrifice (was tuners- technology)
  <><><>

  yes, I was able to do this, and proceeded to read the unison, with the =
same care and the same number of samples. And then I went back and =
repeated every step (re-measuring each string individually, etc). My =
results: I did not confirm Jim's data. I found what I consider to be =
completely random results. Sometimes the three strings played together =
would be flat, sometimes sharp, sometimes the same.=20
  <><>
   First, it is next to impossible to tune a unison within a tolerance =
of 0.1 cents, and I would say that it is utterly impossible without the =
use of a machine. It's a problem of resolution - 0.1 cents is at the =
threshold of where a pitch produced by a piano string can be measured. =
They just don't produce pitch that clearly defined. Variance in volume, =
and not that large a variance, will change pitch more than that.
  <><>
  the aural resolution of the pitch of three strings of slightly =
different pitches will be affected by the factor of phasing (phenomenon =
where strings will tend to phase with one another, locking their pitches =
to one another just like PitchLock does), so that it is quite possible =
that the perceived (and measured) pitch of the entire unison would be =
lower than the original string, because of one string having a lower =
pitch. And the unison might sound very clean. A unison within a =
tolerance of 0.5 cents generally sounds "perfect" to most everybody. But =
I know most if not all of us can hear a difference of 0.5 cents in =
context of octaves, M3s and many other intervals.

  Regards,
  Fred Sturm
  University of New Mexico=20
  PS I would be interested in hearing the results of anyone else who =
replicates the described experiment.    =20

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