[CAUT] tuning pins on a Samick

[Gary Mushlin]

John,

The manufacturer  may have the best answer to that.  I don't think  
this has ever happened for me. I've seen pinblocks that were not  
drilled all the way through, in which case that might be the cause.  
Maybe some are drilled almost all the way through but not enough for  
when the tuning pin comes through. One other option I can think of:  
defective pinblock. Either the pinblock was of low quality or wasn't  
glued together properly. In this last case, I don't see how the  
technician can be held responsible.

I see pin tapping as a last resort before replacing pins or pinblock.  
To me, it is a method of buying a little time. Sometimes I get a year  
out of it; other times I may get several years. In any event, it  
allows time so the customer can decide if they want to replace the  
piano or spend the money to fix it properly. If the piano is tunable  
after tapping the pins, even if the bottom pinblock layer splits out,  
you've accomplished something.

Sincerely,
Gary Mushlin, MME, RPT








On Feb 5, 2007, at 2:03 PM, John Ross wrote:

> My problem is, how, if the bottom of the block was supported, did  
> the delamination occur?
> Possibly, you had gone past the supported part, and kept pounding  
> them in?
> I know I have miscalculated the support part at times, but I was  
> lucky, and there was no problem.
> John M. Ross
> Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada
> jrpiano at win.eastlink.ca
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mushlin" <gmushlin at kc.rr.com>
> To: "College and University Technicians" <caut at ptg.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] tuning pins on a Samick
>
>
>> Don,
>>
>> I'm assuming the piano was not under warranty when you did the   
>> operation. If it was under warranty, it would have been best to   
>> contact Samick and have them direct you. This way, if you did  
>> what  they recommended and it didn't work out, they would cover  
>> you.  In  fact, even if the piano is not under warranty, it  
>> wouldn't hurt to  call Samick and tell them what happened. Maybe  
>> they could at least  advise you what to do next.
>>
>> It sounds like you did everything considered correct by  
>> professional standards. At least, I was told when I was trained  
>> that driving the tuning pins with supports was the proper way to  
>> deal with loose  tuning pins as a first step. If they were really  
>> loose I might have  used some CA glue and then drive the pins.  
>> Therefore, it is not your  fault the pinblock split at the bottom  
>> lamination. It sounds like you  had the jack tight enough. You  
>> shouldn't have to have the jack  underneath where you are tapping,  
>> either. It may be necessary to move  the jack 3 or 4 times as you  
>> complete the job.
>>
>> My guess is that the laminations that really count (the ones that  
>> surround the tuning pin) are OK. If the tuning pins are tight  
>> after  you tap the tuning pins, you are probably fine. Another way  
>> to tell  if laminations are loose, is you can see portions of the  
>> pinblock  that are lower than other portions. Sometimes you cannot  
>> see any  problem, however. As far as tuning pin length, the only  
>> practical  problem I see is that they might interfere with pulling  
>> the action  out if they protrude too far below the pinblock. Also,  
>> it doesn't  look good.
>>
>> Normally, my next step when tuning pins come loose again is to  
>> repin.  In your case, maybe replacing the pinblock might be the  
>> next step, considering that oversized pins might cause more  
>> splitting out  (again, contact Samick).
>>
>> My rule is that if I perform a service on a piano that is  
>> considered correct, it is the customer's responsibility if  
>> something goes wrong.  I would not give them a free pinblock any  
>> more than I would give them  free strings if strings break during  
>> the tuning process (unless I  tightened the string by mistake well  
>> above the normal breaking point).
>>
>> However, just because you don't owe them, that doesn't mean you  
>> don't have a customer relations problem. Most customers, I think,   
>> understand that when strings break  (as well as other things)  
>> that  you are a professional and know what your doing, and won't  
>> blame you  if something like this happens. My approach is to tell  
>> the customer  up front that tapping the pins (and maybe using CA  
>> glue) is the first  step because it is the least amount of work  
>> and is the least  expensive approach, and that it is possible that  
>> it will not work.  The next step would be repinning. The most  
>> drastic step is install a  new pinblock and restring. If the  
>> pinblock/string replacement exceeds  the value of the instrument,  
>> I might suggest repairing the pinblock  with epoxy. I think the  
>> bottom line is not to promise the customer  that you will solve  
>> every problem when using "first aid" techniques  like tapping  
>> tuning pins. Something I learned from Wally Brooks years  ago:  
>> "Don't make the customer's problem into your problem." Actually,   
>> I heard him say it years ago, but when something like what  
>> happened  to you happens to me, I think I am still learning it.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Gary Mushlin, MME, RPT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 5, 2007, at 9:21 AM, daniel carlton wrote:
>>
>>> i actually wasn't replacing the pins, just driving the one that   
>>> were already there.
>>>
>>> "Why are you driving them so far through the block?
>>> When they go that far, they must be pushing the jack away from  
>>> the block."
>>> i made the mistake of not checking whether they were too long or  
>>> not.
>>> i had done that two or three times before on other pianos, but  
>>> the  pins were short enough that they didn't protrude through the  
>>> bottom  of the PB, so i forgot to check. oops.
>>>
>>> Do you have a support between the keybed and the floor?
>>> yes i did have support between the keybed and the floor...the  
>>> piano legs. (SORRY, JUST KIDDING.)
>>> i used my pinblock support, the kind with two pieces of laminated  
>>> hardwood two large bolts.
>>> i had a piece of high density fiberboard between the support and   
>>> the keybed.
>>>
>>> "...you owe your customer a new pinblock as well."
>>> "Sorry, but I'd say that this block is a do-over."
>>>
>>> well...crap.
>>>
>>> i guess there's really no way to tell if the damage is deeper  
>>> than  the first lamination.
>>> so it sounds like most everyone's professional opinion is to put  
>>> in  a new PB?
>>>
>>> daniel carlton
>>>
>>>
>>>