[CAUT] tuning pins on a Samick

[John Ross]

My problem is, how, if the bottom of the block was supported, did the 
delamination occur?
Possibly, you had gone past the supported part, and kept pounding them in?
I know I have miscalculated the support part at times, but I was lucky, and 
there was no problem.
John M. Ross
Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada
jrpiano at win.eastlink.ca
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary Mushlin" <gmushlin at kc.rr.com>
To: "College and University Technicians" <caut at ptg.org>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] tuning pins on a Samick


> Don,
>
> I'm assuming the piano was not under warranty when you did the  operation. 
> If it was under warranty, it would have been best to  contact Samick and 
> have them direct you. This way, if you did what  they recommended and it 
> didn't work out, they would cover you.  In  fact, even if the piano is not 
> under warranty, it wouldn't hurt to  call Samick and tell them what 
> happened. Maybe they could at least  advise you what to do next.
>
> It sounds like you did everything considered correct by professional 
> standards. At least, I was told when I was trained that driving the 
> tuning pins with supports was the proper way to deal with loose  tuning 
> pins as a first step. If they were really loose I might have  used some CA 
> glue and then drive the pins. Therefore, it is not your  fault the 
> pinblock split at the bottom lamination. It sounds like you  had the jack 
> tight enough. You shouldn't have to have the jack  underneath where you 
> are tapping, either. It may be necessary to move  the jack 3 or 4 times as 
> you complete the job.
>
> My guess is that the laminations that really count (the ones that 
> surround the tuning pin) are OK. If the tuning pins are tight after  you 
> tap the tuning pins, you are probably fine. Another way to tell  if 
> laminations are loose, is you can see portions of the pinblock  that are 
> lower than other portions. Sometimes you cannot see any  problem, however. 
> As far as tuning pin length, the only practical  problem I see is that 
> they might interfere with pulling the action  out if they protrude too far 
> below the pinblock. Also, it doesn't  look good.
>
> Normally, my next step when tuning pins come loose again is to repin.  In 
> your case, maybe replacing the pinblock might be the next step, 
> considering that oversized pins might cause more splitting out  (again, 
> contact Samick).
>
> My rule is that if I perform a service on a piano that is considered 
> correct, it is the customer's responsibility if something goes wrong.  I 
> would not give them a free pinblock any more than I would give them  free 
> strings if strings break during the tuning process (unless I  tightened 
> the string by mistake well above the normal breaking point).
>
> However, just because you don't owe them, that doesn't mean you don't 
> have a customer relations problem. Most customers, I think,  understand 
> that when strings break  (as well as other things) that  you are a 
> professional and know what your doing, and won't blame you  if something 
> like this happens. My approach is to tell the customer  up front that 
> tapping the pins (and maybe using CA glue) is the first  step because it 
> is the least amount of work and is the least  expensive approach, and that 
> it is possible that it will not work.  The next step would be repinning. 
> The most drastic step is install a  new pinblock and restring. If the 
> pinblock/string replacement exceeds  the value of the instrument, I might 
> suggest repairing the pinblock  with epoxy. I think the bottom line is not 
> to promise the customer  that you will solve every problem when using 
> "first aid" techniques  like tapping tuning pins. Something I learned from 
> Wally Brooks years  ago: "Don't make the customer's problem into your 
> problem." Actually,  I heard him say it years ago, but when something like 
> what happened  to you happens to me, I think I am still learning it.
>
> Sincerely,
> Gary Mushlin, MME, RPT
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 5, 2007, at 9:21 AM, daniel carlton wrote:
>
>> i actually wasn't replacing the pins, just driving the one that  were 
>> already there.
>>
>> "Why are you driving them so far through the block?
>> When they go that far, they must be pushing the jack away from the 
>> block."
>> i made the mistake of not checking whether they were too long or not.
>> i had done that two or three times before on other pianos, but the  pins 
>> were short enough that they didn't protrude through the bottom  of the 
>> PB, so i forgot to check. oops.
>>
>> Do you have a support between the keybed and the floor?
>> yes i did have support between the keybed and the floor...the piano 
>> legs. (SORRY, JUST KIDDING.)
>> i used my pinblock support, the kind with two pieces of laminated 
>> hardwood two large bolts.
>> i had a piece of high density fiberboard between the support and  the 
>> keybed.
>>
>> "...you owe your customer a new pinblock as well."
>> "Sorry, but I'd say that this block is a do-over."
>>
>> well...crap.
>>
>> i guess there's really no way to tell if the damage is deeper than  the 
>> first lamination.
>> so it sounds like most everyone's professional opinion is to put in  a 
>> new PB?
>>
>> daniel carlton
>>
>>
>>
>