The initial question on this was asking for opinions about the pianos. My opinion is that the 1098 is more difficult to tune and doesn't sound that good. The reasons for the tuning issues were outlined well by Fred Strum. I don't know if he commented on serious problems with falseness or not but that is also a characteristic of the pianos that I have encountered. I'm afraid you are not likely to convince me otherwise but you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. Serviceability, in my view, is a consideration. If someone is asking my opinion about purchasing pianos that I will ultimately be responsible for servicing then I am likely to consider that as one factor in my recommendation. Those factors along with cost would push me in a different direction as far as the verticals were concerned. Other than being able to say you have all Steinways (not an impressive bragging right with respect to verticals in my view), I don't see a benefit to committing to Steinway when you could buy a Yamaha U7 or two for the price of one 1098. It's a pretty easy decision for me. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Tanner Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:05 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway 1098 David Love wrote: The person who only tunes one piano doesn't know the difference. And yet, he doesn't complain and he does a good job. Bet he could do a whale of a job on a piano that's "easy" to tune. I think that's the point. We should differentiate in this continuing discussion between being able to tune one and enjoying tuning one. Help me understand why "enjoying tuning one" is important? Isn't the enjoyment of the customer and the satisfaction (and income) from being very good at your work regardless of how much you enjoy one job over another more important? While I seem to be well suited for the work, I can't say I have ever "enjoyed" tuning any piano. It is the tedious process we must go through, be it more or less enjoyable, to be able to "enjoy" playing it, or "enjoy" hearing someone else play it, regardless of the instrument. What I enjoy are the results of the work. But the work itself, regardless of instrument, is the same monotonous exercise over and over and over, none being more "enjoyable" than another, but each being "different". What does it matter that I enjoy the work, other than that the end result is pleasing? What matters is that I please the customer as well or better than anyone else can. That is what pays the bills. What I "enjoy" does not (pay the bills). There are many pianos that are poorly designed in terms of tuning pin flag polling that anyone with experience is capable of tuning. Give me a me a piano the ease of which might lull me into a false sense of security (a fairly absurd supposition) anytime. I do not think it is at all absurd. The tuning pin bushings add friction or a faux support that masks the feel of whether the pin torque is balanced. I tuned a Yamaha console today and found myself working harder to overcome that feeling in search of tuning stability than I do on a Steinway without the pin bushings. On several occasions as I was pulling in the 3rd string of a unison, I noticed the lights on the SAT were telling me the first string wasn't where I was certain I'd just left it seconds earlier (in fact, the lights were spinning pretty rapidly after I thought I'd locked them in). The extra friction gives a false sense of security. Fred Sturm worte: "But pins behave and feel differently depending on various factors, and 1098s of older vintage did/do have that flag-poling extra springiness that makes it difficult to feel small movements of the pin in the block." That does not describe what I have experienced. The flag-poling makes rendering happen before the pin moves in the block, so it is easier to manipulate the pitch without moving the pin in the block. Or, more accurately, it is more difficult to prevent pitch manipulation without moving the pin in the block. Perhaps it is more difficult to achieve small movements of the pin in the block, but such movements are easier to "feel" than with pins in pianos which have tuning pin bushings, which can mask the feel of true pin movement. " Coupled with, often, excess friction and a long string length between speaking length and tuning pin." I've never found excess friction to be the issue unless the strings were corroded. In fact, quite the opposite. The speaking length can change by practically "breathing" on the tip of the pin. The changes in pitch are more pronounced in the speaking length without movement of the pin in the block. The challenge is then to develop a technique to reduce the effects of flag-poling so that you better control the changes in pitch while at the same time control movement on the other end of the tuning pin. I don't think I can accurately describe my technique other than that it involves some downward pressure on the pin as I apply rotational pressure. It's a "feel" thing that I can't put into words, but I think the downward pressure prevents excessive movement in the speaking length. One student described observing me "massage" the pin into position. Some of these threads in the past have had me trying to come up with a description of how I do it. But even while I'm tuning a 1098, I can't put what I'm doing into words. It ain't easy, but it is definitely doable. " Combine the worst of that, and it can definitely be a piano that isn't fun to tune,..." The "fun" of tuning has never been the reward. Anyone who finds piano tuning to be fun needs to "have some tests run." The joy is in the results. Sometimes, the less fun the challenge, the more satisfying those results can be. Then, there are always the challenges that only strong drink afterward can relieve. :-) Tanner ----- Original Message ----- From: David Love <mailto:davidlovepianos at comcast.net> To: caut at ptg.org Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway 1098 David Love www.davidlovepianos.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut_ptg.org/attachments/20081205/1b27e1ee/attachment-0001.html>
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