[CAUT] Semantics

ron worth ronald_worth at hotmail.com
Tue May 12 15:45:05 MDT 2009


Gary,

Your understanding is correct.

Replace the piano strings with tuning forks, the forks' spindles anchored to the piano bridge - the same plane as the strings.
Let the hammers hit the prongs of the forks and you have your acoustic mechanical vibrational resonator - 
the amplitudes of the natural frequencies of/from the tuning forks increase (after the vibrations enter the soundboard) -
fulfilling the definition of amplification in mechanical systems - 
the soundboards' mass and other physical properties increases the the amplitude of the natural frequencies coming from the tuning forks - 
the impulse energy (containing ALL vibrational frequencies - the blows or strikes from the hammers) imparted to the forks are filtered out - 
by the forks to only the forks natural frequencies.

Have patience.

Ron

> From: escapement at comcast.net
> To: caut at ptg.org
> Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 16:11:13 -0400
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Semantics
> 
> Boy, this just keeps getting more and more confusing.  I have to disagree
> about "amplitude."  Yes, it is a measure of the intensity in wave movement,
> but also (and in that very context) of sound level.  
> 
> Calling a soundboard an amplifier is misleading (I think, simply) because it
> doesn't amplify like a modern stereo system amplifies--i.e., it doesn't
> increase the energy level.
> 
> But when sound level is increased, when something gets louder, its
> corresponding sine/ sound wave increases in "amplitude," (by definition).
> Imagine a sound wave: the frequency of the wave determines it's pitch, and
> the amplitude (the peaks and valleys) determines it's loudness or intensity.
> 
> Right, the string has little surface area so it moves little air, creates
> little sound.  The soundboard has a greater surface area, so it moves a
> great deal more air. 
> 
> The interesting part, to me anyway, is what they do *together* as a coupled
> device.  The resonance factor.  The soundboard resonates with the strings in
> such a way as to greatly increase the sound energy.
> 
> I still don't see the transducer in the soundboard--I just don't see enough
> distinction in the energy as it passes from the strings to the soundboard/
> bridge. 
> 
> I think I see what you're saying, but I guess I just don't quite get it.
> 
> To me, the transducer argument *de-couples* the strings and the
> soundboard--(by doing this "transducing," taking one thing and making it
> another).  That goes against everything I've read about piano acoustics.
> 
> But I certainly know when to let an issue rest, and I definitely don't want
> to rile any feathers here. So I will bow out of this discussion, scratching
> my head a little, but much the richer for having participated.  
> 
> Respectfully, Gary   
> 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Don
> Mannino
> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:12 PM
> To: caut at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Semantics
> 
> Greg Soule correctly pointed out again that definitions vary. Here are
> some more miscellaneous but related ramblings on this topic.
> 
> The most general definition for 'transducer' I have found is:
> 
> Any of various devices that transmit energy from one system to another,
> sometimes one that converts the energy in form, as a speaker that
> converts electrical impulses into sound.
> Etymology: < L transducere, to lead across < trans-, over + ducere, to
> lead
> (Websters New World) 
> 
> Note the word "sometimes." The most common transducers we deal with are
> electrical to mechanical and vice versa, so this is the most common use
> of the word.  The word is also correctly applied to a soundboard which
> is driven by a large amplitude string movement (of very small area) into
> a small amplitude soundboard movement (over a large area).  The large
> area is what causes the air molecules to move, and is why we can hear it
> a lot better, even though the soundboard is actually moving in a much
> smaller amplitude than the string.
> 
> If this word "amplitude" confuses matters, it is important to think
> about a little, because of its relation to what an amplifier actually
> is.  Amplitude does not refer  to volume of sound, but it is related of
> course. Amplitude refers to the size of the movement.  So in relation to
> a sound, if the air moves with large amplitude it will be loud.  But a
> string that moves with large amplitude is not necessarily creating a
> loud sound, unless it connects to something that makes the air move.
> 
> If you watch a string in the middle of the piano and play it fortissimo,
> you can see that the amplitude is pretty large.  It is easy to see and
> even measure the string movement.  Now look at the soundboard under a
> good light, and hit the same note hard.  Can you see the soundboard
> movement?  If so, you have good eyes and good light - it is very
> difficult to see, because it is very small.
> 
> So this is how the energy is being transduced.  It is changed from a
> large amplitude vibration of a small area (string) into a large area
> small amplitude movement of the air over the soundboard.
> 
> To really argue semantics we could discuss whether it would be more
> correct to call the "string / bridge / soundboard system" the
> transducer.
> 
> Let's not.
> 
> So to the original thought that it's OK to call a soundboard an
> amplifier, well, any word can have alternate uses that are not really
> correct, but are still used anyway.  But it is my preference to say that
> the soundboard makes the sound audible.  I stick to calling electrical
> things with volume controls amplifiers.  Even "guitar amps" is a
> misnomer, because this refers to an amplifier combined with a speaker.
> But that's what people call them, so this is another example of a
> technically incorrect term falling into common usage.  As long as
> someone says "Guitar Amp" or "Keyboard Amp" then I know they are
> referring to a system, not just an amplifier.  The technically
> inaccurate terminology is understandable, because it is in context.
> 
> Related to some of the fine points people have been debating: There is a
> correct and widely recognized term for a system which takes a small
> _sound_ wave and makes it louder so that people can hear it.  It is not
> referred to as an amplifier, but is called a "sound reinforcement
> system" which incorporates microphones, amplifiers, and speakers.  So
> lets follow this lead, and use the technically correct terminology.
> Let's call this device that takes finger movements and turns it into
> beautiful music a "Piano Forte" (short form: "Piano")  It incorporates a
> variety of components which combine together, hopefully, to the creation
> of beauty in our lives.
> 
> Don Mannino
> 

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