My Dear Kuang: I am greatly interested in your propositions of tuning by 5ths. I used to use the J Cree Fischer method in 1946, so I am a bit familiar with it. In your explanation below, you mention tuning your first 5 notes A, D, G, C and F. Unless you are tuning some intervening octaves, I fail to see how you have a minor A-C 10th or a Maj F-A 10th. Yes, by tuning the octaves of each of these notes, you can have these two 10ths available, but that means that you have tuned about 9 notes instead of just 5. The first problem I see in this is that you are more than half through a normal temperament system before you have a check. The second problem I see is that you give us no beat rates for those two checks. The third problem I see is that in using intervening octaves for which you have no indication of how you gauge the width of the octaves, there could be an accumulation of errors in the octaves. Could you give us a little more detail on how you solve these problems, especially the last one? Could you give us the note numbers of the notes you tune so that we can tell which F-A 10th is compared to which A-C minor 10th? Jim Coleman, Sr. PS I really am interested in learning about perfect 5th temperaments at the expense of widening the octaves, for I think this is the next generation approach. Oops, I've come out of the closet on this one. Already I am stretching my initial octaves enough to make ALMOST pure 5ths. Please understand that I'm not trying to be critical of you. I should be able to learn something from anyone. JWC On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, KUANG wrote: > Actually it's not that bad at all. I usually start from A, then go down > to D, to G, to C, and to F. And here I stop to avoid disaster.... > I check the minor 10th (A and C) and the major 10th (F and A). I can't > hear the beat but I know if either or both intervals sound right, > then I better start over. At the same time, I will know if "my" perfect > fifth is too low or too high. I don't know how fast average tuners can > set a perfect temperament, but I usually can get the temperament in 10 to > 20 minutes, depending on the condition of the piano. > > Kuang > > On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Jim wrote: > > > The only problem with the J. Cree Fischer method is that you have to > > tune all 12 notes along with their connecting octaves before you find > > out if it's going to come out all right. You've got 12 chances for > > small errors which can become cumulative, and then WHAMO!, you've got > > to start over again. > > > > Jim Coleman, Sr. > > > > On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, KUANG wrote: > > > > > Hi, list: > > > That book by Fischer happenes to be my first tuning "text book". > > > Perfect fifth temperament is the only method I use (and the only method I > > > know) to tune a piano. I found it very easy to learn and it's VERY > > > accurate (to most people I know). > > > No, i don't know how to hear "beats" (i don't intend to learn it > > > either...sounds like it's hard to learn). I'm not a professional tuner > > > (i'm a student of many majors including piano and violin) but all of my > > > music friends think i'm at a professional level. The major thirds don't > > > sound flat to me at all. Every time i check the pianos tuned by the piano > > > technician of my music department with perfect fifths, one or two of them > > > are flat and/or sharp (I bet he doesn't use SAT.....or does he? Oh, he's > > > a RPT. No offense) I never checked my own temperament with an instrument > > > so I don't know if my tunning is really that accurate or not. The only > > > problem with perfect fifth temperament i know is that if "your" perfect > > > fifth is only 0.2 cent sharp/flat, then you'll end up with little more > > > than 2 cent sharp/flat (and if "your" perfect fifth is 1 cent off, > > > then....oh well, go figure :) ). And it won't sound pleasant if you > > > check with the octave. I said it was an easy method because, well, it's > > > the only interval you have to know! > > > > > > Kuang > > > > > > On Mon, 3 Feb 1997 KTorres280@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > This sounds similar to a book by J. Cree Fischer (I hope I have his name > > > > correct) in which a temperament can be set using only fifths. However, the > > > > end result is supposed to be the same as with other standard methods. I have > > > > tried this method without much success however. Another tuner I know used to > > > > set his temperament with just fourths and fifths, not using thirds and other > > > > checks at all. He was an excellent tuner but could not explain how he did it, > > > > and he didn't even know what I meant when I asked him about the speed of the > > > > beats in thirds and such...a technician from Russia taught him. But he sure > > > > knew how to make even the worst pianos sound great! > > > > > > > > > >
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