In a message dated 98-01-30 06:49:13 EST, you write: << Greetings, (I'm changing thread titles, hoping to focus the subject more closely, >> Thanks, Ed for introducing a new title. I think the temperature under our collars has cooled off enough and that we can now continue with a constructive, civil discussion that sticks to the issue and does not have to contend with scurrilous accusations of unethical, illegal or "abnormal" practices. Tom posted earlier; << Since a pianist does not have the capability to adjust intonation when a modulation occurs, I submit that a "neutral" tuning is a very desirable.(snip) I'm not against HTs per se but think that, for most situations, an instrument that is called upon for playing such a vast array of music needs to have the most versatile tuning possible. (snip) How do you choose a temperament? I've got 57 programmed into my machine and I'm confused. (snip)The instrument should be transparent to the music. >> These, I recognize is the most commonly held beliefs and they do seem logical on the surface. From the time of Bach, tunings gravitated towards ET being that composers wished to be able to use all 24 major & minor keys. From today's perspective, it seems only logical to go to the point of neutrality and be done with it. Why regress and create something that will inevitably prove unuseable at some point or another? We must not ignore the fact that ET had always been a consideration. Helmholz did not invent it. Dr. Wm. Braide White was not the first to tune it or propose that it be used. It was tried and rejected because in the early days, it sounded very bad to the people of that time. It sounded bad on harpsichords, fortepianos and organs. Those instruments have entirely different characteristics than the modern piano. The music of the Baroque and Classical periods was "geared" towards using those instruments. Tuning at the time was "geared" to the music that was actually being written and to make those instruments sound pleasing to the ear and to contemporary taste. As the piano developed, so did musical complexity. The piano that Chopin used was far different from what Bach and Mozart had. Chopin chose to write primarily in the remote keys because he craved the energy and brilliance he derived from them on his piano. The simpler keys just sounded too "dull" with poor leading tones. Since keyboards have always, and still are the tools of composers who write music, the character that a certain key has, because of the way the instrument is tuned, has become part of music as we know it. Strangely enough, this concept of character has persisted to the present in spite of ET. I personally believe this to be true because of two things: traditions in harmonic concepts that have never been lost and the fact that since it is so very difficult to actually truly neutralize a scale, especially by ear alone, piano tuners, by and large, never really did until very recently, even though they may well have believed that they were tuning ET and that ET had been in use since the time of Bach. Indeed, as soon as the Well-Tempered Tunings were developed, where the restriction of the "wolf" was eliminated, the tunings were called "equal" because now all 24 major and minor keys were equally accessible although they were most definitely not equal in character (color) or equally tempered. As some have already pointed out in this discussion, those earlier instruments were very unstable compared to ours today. Even if someone were trying to tune a true ET, it might not have held up through a single movement as such. What many of today do not realize is that the "errors" or inequalities that may be in the temperament do matter very much. If one's temperament is not truly equal, then the speed of the 3rds and the tempering (or purity) of the 5ths introduce color to the temperament where there is supposed to be no distinction. If that color is in line with the Cycle of 5ths, it will actually enhance the way the piano sounds and is a good thing as I will explain futher on. If it is at random or in opposition to the cycle of 5ths, then it is actually destructive because it runs contrary to the way virtually all music since the early Baroque and into the present (with very, very few exceptions) has been conceived. Tragically, I'm afraid that common practices often to result in this kind of "Reverse-Well" temperament and this fact is not realized and/or ignored. The belief remains that the temperament is "equal" and any small errors don't matter. What was far more practical in the early days was to give the keys their character (color) based upon the cycle of 5ths. Any instability could be tolerated until the instrument was out of tune enough to require a complete tuning. So, even though there were all of these numerous small variations in bearing plans and small resultant character (color) differences between them and even though so many people had their own ideas about which temperament was best, none of these small differences had much real effect on the outcome of the music at the time. It was all cycle of 5ths based and every temperament had the same basic characteristic: Tonality progressed through the cycle of 5ths from smooth and harmonious at the top to brilliant and strident at the bottom. (I am ignoring for the purpose of this discussion any of the odd tuning concepts that were never widely used, I am speaking of the meantones, the modified meantones and the Well-Temperaments). Composers always chose to write in a key that reflected the character they wished to create. There have always been 2 basic kinds of major tonalities and 2 basic kinds of minor. If you truly tune a keyboard in ET, you quite effectively reduce your choices of basic character from 4 to 2. In doing so, you create 2 new types that never existed before. Tom Cole asserts... <<You might even say that the piece and the temperament are integral. Of course, that same logic could be applied to works written since ET. >> There was only one very brief period, in the early 20th Century when music writing theory truly went atonal. As I said in my humor piece, "...it is rarely, if ever played. It's really awful, in my opinion. It has no harmony, no melody, no good beat to it or anything". Owen Jorgensen adds his own light humored observation to this in his lectures, "To introduce key color to this kind of music would be to introduce something that was not designed or intended, not to say that it might not help that kind of music actually sound better!" So now, what do we do with the modern piano, a versitile instrument, far different in character from its ancestors and on which we wish to play virtually all music from all periods? Tom Cole adds... >An ill-chosen temperament would detract from a performance but a >well- chosen and well-executed HT tuning might very well enhance a >composition. Ed Foote answers... An ill-chosen temperament is precisely what I hope technicians will learn to recognize. A well-executed HT *will* enhance a composition written for it. ( and a poorly chosen one will ruin a performance!) Instead of looking to ET, which totally eliminates the character provided by Cycle of 5ths based temperaments, I think we need to develop a body or repertoire of temperaments that we can consider to be universally acceptable, the way ET is thought to be. A few years ago, I was calling this concept, a "Universally Acceptable Alternative Temperament" or UAAT (as in "Where y'at wit' yo" UAAT's?") Marshall Hawkins admonished that he didn't like that word, "alternative". It does make it sound like a liberal idea when in actuality, the preservation of HT's might well be considered conservative. I don't think there will ever be a one and only or "Holy Grail" as some have called the concept. The obvious place to start however is with the Victorian Temperaments which represent the very last Cycle of 5ths based temperaments before tuning actually began gravitating towards true ET. There are the Quasi-Equal Temperaments ("quasi" meaning "almost") but they are by design not cycle of 5ths oriented and thus do not provide for the 4 distinct modes that I mentioned earlier. I have used for 6 years now a Victorian temperament that I have come to call Equal-Beating Victorian. There are no set rules or in my view, any "authentic" Victorian. There is a description as a very mild Well-Tempered Tuning and several historically documented very small variations in how tuners were tuning in the late 19th Century. While working on the Victorian style, I came to notice that I could get a significant amount of the "Equal-Beating" phenomonen that is associated with so many of the meantone and Well- Temperaments. It is a very important feature. It lends harmoniousness and a clean, clear, "in-tune" sound to a tuning that is not possible in ET. There are, of course other tunings that can be in this repertoire. The Thomas Young #1, the Vallotti, the Handel and the 1/7 Comma Meantone. There are bound to be many more that will work and there are bound to be contemporary technicians who will develop their own, as I and my friend Paul Bailey RPT have. Remember that in 1982, Steve Fairchild came up with the same idea as Antonio Franceso Vallotti did in the 18th Century. It's a very good temperament. I've used it for piano concertos and would again, given the right occasion. Let's also not lose sight of the idea that we can tune a particular temperament for a particular occasion. We can have concerts where there are two or more pianos, each with a different character of its own and each with a different tuning that reflects that character. This will present an expanded business opportunity for us. All we need to do is get people used to and interested in the idea. I so often hear, "We couldn't do that!" "We have to have a piano you can play in ALL the keys!" "Nobody can tell difference in all those temperaments!" "We have to have consistency!" "We can't be jerking the piano all around, ya know!" "We're lucky to be able to have ONE piano, let alone TWO!" "ET is the BEST temperament, Bach invented it HUNDREDS of years ago (sic) and it's been used ever since!" "I wouldn't want any MEAN tones coming out of MY piano!", and so on, all negativity, all leading nowhere, all putting the piano ultimately in jeopardy of extinction. Here are some figures you can try on virtually any piano if you have an SAT. They were the actual figures I came up with when I was presented with the opportunity of tuning a Steinway B for the rehearsals of a newly commissioned opera about the famous architect, Frank Lloyd Wright who lived at one time in Madison and was born nearby. I still take care of the pianos at his estate and tune every one of them with this temperament. The name of the Opera was, "Shining Brow". It is an American English translation of the Welch word, "Taliesin". This was the name Wright gave to his great house and estate in Spring Green, Wisconsin. It is now a National Landmark. For a time, this temperament was known as the "Shining Brow" temperament. It was what I later developed into the Equal-Beating Victorian. If for no other reason, I dropped the "Shining Brow" name because I did not want to risk any copyright infringement of a name already legally claimed. All values are read on octave 5. You must reset the SAT at note C4 so that it stores the values on octave 5 and not 6 as it will do automatically. These values can be used on virtually any piano, there will only be a slight difference in the outcome from one piano to the next due to the individual piano's inharmonicity. These are NOT deviations for an FAC program. You must create your own octaves. F3: 2.0 F#3: -2.5 G3: 2.0 G#3: 1.0 A3: 0.0 A#3: 1.0 B3: -2.0 C4: 2.5 C#4: -2.0 D4: 0.0 D#4: 1.5 E4: -2.5 F4: 2.5 Notice that there is no deviation from theoretical ET greater than 2.5. This means that there is no note that is even 1 cycle deviant from theoretical ET. It is completely compatible with any and all other instruments and can be used to play any and all music from early to contemporary while leaving in the inherent character (color) of the cycle of 5ths. There are NO WOLVES. There are NO PYTHAGOREAN 3rds. There is virtually no sound that a contemporary musician will find that seems out of character for the modern piano. With all due respect to my colleagues and their concerns, I believe that is within the bounds of ethics to use a temperament such as this with or without explanation to the customer. While I would like to be able to explain and inform each and every customer about it, there are indeed times when it is not a good idea to talk about the work to be done, sometimes there is no one to talk to. At the end of this post is a copy of a set of instructions I had written a couple of years ago on a Smith-Corona Word Processor for an aurally constructed Equal-Beating Victorian. The most difficult part is in the 1st 3 notes where some estimating is required, as it is in ET. I figured out how to do that with consistency with an SAT and wrote to Jim Coleman a month or so ago on how to do it. If you'd like to construct the EBVic by scratch and store it in the SAT, follow the instructions for the first three notes, then do the aural instructions and enter the results as you go. You can use the direct interval method for the 4 pure 5ths that are part of the temperament. To sample the effect of this temperament however, simply use the values for the temperament listed above which is from where the below was derived. The most difficult part of the temperament is the first three notes (as they are in ET). If you are using an SAT, your F3-F4 octave must all be read on the 5th octave. I use the same partial selection as the RPT Exam does. The 3rd, 4th & 5th octaves are all read on the 5th octave. In this way, I can make my numerical values more rational. The manual tells how to change the partial selection to accomplish this. If you are using the SAT to assist, first, you need to sample the inharmonicity the old "Stretch Factor" way (explained in the Manual) by reading the difference in value between the 5th and 6th octave on note F4. A reading of 4.5 or below is considered "low". A reading of 4.6 to 5.9 is considered "moderate" and a reading beyond 6 is considered "high" inharmonicity. Next, tune A3 to 0.0 (read on the 5th octave). Then go to E4 (read on E5). If the Inharmonicity (I) is low, dial in -2.5 and store. If the I is moderate, store -2.0, if it is high, store -1.5. Next, by direct interval, tune a 3rd down from E4 to C4. (See the Manual for Direct Interval tuning). If the I is low, tune a 6.5 cent 3rd and store C4 at that value on C5. If the I is moderate, tune a 7.0 cent 3rd, if it is high, tune a 7.5 cent 3rd and store C4. Now you have your 1st 3 notes. Proceed with the aural instructions and use the Direct interval method for tuning the pure 4ths and 5ths that are indicated and store the resutls of aural equal beating intervals as you go. My usual method for stretching is outlined at the end of the instructions. Equal Beating Victorian Temperament (Equal Beating Victorianized Modified Meantone Temperament) Instructions for Aural Tuning 1. Tune A4 to A-440 pitch source. 2. Tune A3 to A4, a 6:3 type octave. 3. Temper E4 from A3, a narrow 5th, at 1 beat per second. 4. Temper C4 from E4, a wide Major 3rd to beat at 6 beats per second. 5. Temper G3 from E4, a wide Major 6th so that it beats exactly the same as the C4-E4 3rd. 6. Temper B3 from G3, a wide Major 3rd so that it beats exactly the same as both the C4-E4 3rd and the G3-E4 6th. 7. Temporarily tune D4 a pure 4th from A4 then notice the strong beat in the 5th G3-D4 and sharpen D4 until the beat is exactly the same in both the G3-D4 5th and the A3-D4 4th. 8. Tune F3 a pure 5th from C4. To check this interval, use G#2 as the test note and prove that the Ab2-F3 6th beats exactly the same as the Ab2-C4 10th. 9. Tune F4 a pure 4th from C4. To check this interval, use G#3 as the test note and prove that the 3rd Ab3-C4 beats exactly the same as the Ab3-F4 6th. 10. Verify the F3-F4 octave. Using the test for a pure 5th which chooses the lowest coincident partial of F3 & C4 and the test for the pure 4th C4-F4 will yield a properly stretched octave, usually a compromise between a 4:2 & 6:3 type. 11. Tune Bb3 a pure 5th from F4. Use the test note C#3 to prove that the Db3-Bb3 6th beats exactly the same as the Db3-F4 10th. 12. Listen to the resultant 3rd, Bb3-D4. Temper C#4 so that the A3-C#4 3rd beats exactly the same as the Bb3-D4 3rd. 13. Tune F#3 a pure 5th from C#4. Use the test note A2 to prove that the A2-F#3 6th beats exactly the same as the A2-C#4 10th. 14. Tune G#3 a pure 4th from C#4. Use the test note E3 to prove that the E3-G#3 3rd beats exactly the same as the E3-C#4 6th. The Ab3-C4 3rd will beat exactly the same as the F#3-A#3 3rd. 15. Temporarily tune D#4 a pure 5th from G#3 then notice the strong beat between D#4 & A#3 and flatten D#4 until the G#3-D#4 5th beats exactly the same as the A#3-D#4 4th. The B3-D#4 3rd will beat very rapidly, at least as fast as the F#3-A#3 & Ab3-C4 3rds below and similar to but perhaps not quite as fast as the D#4-F4 3rd above. 16. When expanding the octaves do so in a manner which will cause the 2nd inversion major triads of C, G, D, A, E, & B to have the 3rd & 6th beat exactly the same. 17. When expanding the outer octaves, try to reconcile the double octave and the octave and a 5th (12th) so that the double octave and the 12th beat exactly the same. This will naturally result in octaves which vary slightly in size up and down the keyboard. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin P.S. Tom Cole says in summation... <<This discussion of temperaments reminds me of our endless arguments over membership categories. >> There is a similarity. Many are perfectly content with ET as the standard and do not want any change. Many others recognize that ET is not perfect, it does not suit all requirements but feel it is still the best compromise they know of and until somebody comes up with something else that is seriously credible, they will stick with it. Then there are those (like me) who are constantly asserting the wrongness of the way things are and are vigorously trying to find something that people will pay attention to, consider and accept. What do you think?
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