laminated bridge question

[Ron Nossaman]

At 11:30 PM 7/25/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I don't really see what hide glue and laminated bridges have to do with
>historical temperaments?  This isn't a bunch of ultra-conservative dogma
>from someone on a "glue crusade", if that was the implication/slur/joke 
>intended.

*Not a thing, except in tone of discussion. No slur, some implication,
definitely a joke, a little levity. You know? BTW, rest assured,
'conservative' is not how I would describe you.


>OK...in making historical reproductions there is no choice for glue. You
>have to use hide glue. Anything else would be unprofessional and
>a-historical.  But that has nothing to do with why I don't use other
>glues. Hide glue is simply the best product for most woodworking in the
>small shop, whether modern or historical. It is simple and effective when
>used properly. It doesn't creep. It is easy to clamp.  It is totally
>benign. It is cheap.  Hence I still ask why would you want to use anything
>else?

*I believe I stated my reasons in the last post. Why would I care to change?
I don't insist that you don't use yellow glues because you are too ignorant
to know, or too heard headed to learn, how to use them properly. 


>I don't buy any of Ron's objections for that bridge job.  Of course, the
>bottom line is don't use hide glue if you prefer yellow plastic glue, but
>you can't justify that decision by pretending that hide glue is inadequate
>for the job. 

*I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth. At no point in this, or any
other discussion did I state, or even speculate, that hide glue was
inadequate for the job. The working properties of Titebond are better suited
to my work style, in some applications, in my opinion. It's a judgement
call, based on my personal experience. You don't have to buy my objections,
I'm not trying to sell you.


>A laminated bridge, even one with ten layers, is kid's stuff
>compared to making the laminated framing of a big Viennese piano.  My
>suggestion is to learn how to use the product properly, then make a
>properly informed decision. Trouble is the nonsense that is endlessly
>propagated, like the recent article in FWW...you follow that, it's all
>wrong, so you blame the hide glue and get out the yellow stuff. Come to my
>class and I'll show you the right way.

*Oh, ten layers is OK now, but it's kid's stuff. I got it, that's
interesting. That means you make up that big laminated Viennese (*style*,
unless you are in Vienna) framing all by yourself, without a crew of sizers,
gluers, holders, clampers, and moppers standing by. I'd like to see that,
I'll bet that's tough.  Perhaps it would be easier for you, say - merely
adolescent's stuff, if you used fewer laminations. Try slotting a full sized
piece just short of the full length, leaving one end intact, to help keep
the lamination(s) under control. No charge for the advice, I got it from an
expert just a short while back. My next suggestion is that you don't assume
that you are the only guy on the planet who knows anything about hot hide
glue, and that anyone elses choice to use something else is the result of
ignorance. I do use hot hide glue, probably more often than most. I use it
where I choose to, and something else where I don't. You may use it anywhere
you like, for any process, in any manner you see fit - with my blessing.  


>We aren't making industrial sheets of plywood here. That is why modern
>glues were developed and what they are good for. In fact they are better
>for most industrial applications. 

*Interesting, in your last post, you *thought* that's why modern glues were
developed, and now, that *is* why modern glues were developed. I wondered
where you got your information. Now that I know, I'm curious. Which plywood
manufacturer is it that assembles panels with Titebond? I trust you have
names, otherwise it would seem to mean that modern glues were developed for
general woodwork instead of plywood manufacture. I know I can name a lot of
woodworkers who use Titebond for general woodwork.


>But hide glue still rules in the small
>shop. 

*It obviously does, in yours. 


 Ron