Marpurg I (not 1)

[Billbrpt]

In a message dated 98-03-29 17:39:37 EST, you write:

<< No more, Mr. Bill. >>

You go ahead and believe what you want and listen to whomever you want but you
haven't convinced me of a single thing, with anything you've said.  I do not
"berate" people.  There are people on this List who regularly contribute
mounds of pure baloney.  It is time for you to realize that.  I'm not going to
say that ET has "different tonalities" just because that is what you want to
believe.  By definition and design, it is an atonal temperament and has only
one major and one minor tonality, no more.  Whatever you have come up with to
disguise the truth from yourself is all in your head.

Another contributor has just supported my summation of Ralph.  He says
whatever he thinks, whether it has any remote connction to fact or not:

<<Ralph:  I was surprised, a few days ago to read your comments on Joseph
Schillinger. There aren't many left today who remember him. I was a
Schillinger student and later an authorized teacher of his system and
want to correct some of your statements about him. First of all, he was
born in Kharkov, Russia and not in Germany. He gained fame as a composer
in Russia and became a professor of composition the State Institution of
Mus. Ed. in Lenningrad.  He came to the USA in 1928 to lecture on
contemporary music in Russia and made up his mind to never return to the
Soviet Union.  He did not ever teach at Julliard but was on the faculties
at New York Univ. and at Columbia Univ. where he taught music &
mathematics.  He developed some very revolutionary musical theories that
really made sense and worked.  Gershwin studied with him for four and a
half years 
and used many of his ideas in works such as the Cuban Overture, Porgy &
Bess, etc.  A tune he wrote calle "Mine" (for one of his musicals) was
actually an exercise he was assigned to do by Schilllinger.  Of course,
many people know that Glen Miller"s theme "Moonlight Serenade" was
written as an exercise for Schillinger.  Another Gershwin composition
that he wrote for his own use on his last concert tour was the
"Variations on I Got Rhythm" for piano & orch. It is "pure" Schillinger. 
It  starts out with geometrical expansions and the contractions on the
four note theme.    As for the two volumes published by Carl Fischer,
they are practically worthless as  then contain less than half of the
important details of his system.  They couldn't have picked two worse
writers to put those volumes together!  They hadn't the slightest idea
what they were working with!
You said that Julliard today teaches the Schillinger System and that is
not true - Julliard never ever considered doing that.  Lawrence Berk did
begin teaching it in his school in Boston but when he died there was no
one to continue it so his son took over and went back to traditional
theory .  You also said that his system was sort of  slanted towards the
jazz medium and that is not so - it applied to all types of music - past,
present, and future.  He showed his students what was possible - not what
composers had done in the past. He was the only theorist to develop a
theory of rhythm and it was a marvelous concept.  Schools like Julliard,
Eastman, and other Universities shied away from getting involved with his
system because they knew nothing about it . . . . and so, who would teach
it ? When I was in graduate school at Northwestern Univ. I did some
introductory talks on the system and they were interested, but it was too
new and radically different.  I could go on and on with this, but this
mailing list is supposed to be for piano subjects, not for music theory !
Just wanted to set the record straight.               Richard Weinberger,
Sun City West, Az.>>

Why should I not say that someone is wrong when he/she clearly is?  I actually
let a lot of it go.  But when I am attacked and told that I am the one who is
wrong by someone who does not know what he/she is talking about, that is where
I draw the line.  I have had to draw it quite a lot on this List.

Take your choice, learn from those who have information and techniques based
on experience to offer, or take the easy way:  ET is the way to tune.
Everybody tunes ET.  Let's not think about the consequences of any errors in
equality, everybody tunes ET, period.  HT's are unconventional. They make
music sound wierd.  Nobody ever asks for them.  To play "Body & Soul" and
anything by Bill Evans, you need ET. as Ralph says.  Therefore, we must always
tune in ET just in case somebody might want to play something modern in the
remote keys.  ET is always the answer.  HT's are not even worth learning about
because they will virtually never be appropriate.

  The Marpurg I was "far more appropriate" than the Valotti.  So much so, that
Horace would not "even think" of using it.  I wouldn't understand all of the
marvelous things that Horace knows about what a "real" concert tuner like him
does, so he didn't "bother to explain" anything.

ET has "color" and differing "tonality" in it.  All one needs to do is listen
for it, as you say.  (Let's just try to conveniently forget that "color" and
"tonaliy" were specifically what Helmholtz and White tried to do away with).

Whatever, Greg.  Just go ahead and believe whatever you want.  It's up to you.
It's your mind, it's your life.  I'll believe what I know to be the truth
through study and experience and will contuniue to learn and gain new
knowledge and experience.  If you want to believe everything that Ralph,
Horace, Richard, Jim, Gina, Keith and whomever else says, without question,
without argument, without challenge, that's up to you.

I suggest that you do exactly as you said.  Just trash any post or comment I
have to make.   They will not likely agree with most of what the above
"pecking order" says. I will almost always point out where what they have said
is wrong.  Ever notice how I don't do that with certain other individuals?
Could it just be that there are some people who really do know what they are
talking about on this List?   Ever notice that  they don't have a comment on
every subject like the "pecking order" does?

I am not here to win a popularity contest.

Bill