This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Brian, It all depends on the level of work, amount of time, and what expected earnings are. I personally try to make rebuilds look factory. I don't always succeed, but I try. Others don't have that thought at all -never even consider the idea. Some use Renner, some use Schaff. Some don't mind 68 gram touchweight, some do. Some customers don't notice, or care. I say, if it works for you, go for it. I personally have stopped sending out contracts and doing estimates because I cannot rebuild profitably. So, I see where Wim is coming from and most techs I talk to agree. I spend way more hours than you do, there are always unforseen problems, etc. I use Renner, expensive bass strings, and Brooks, LTD. I've tripled my prices and I still have a hard time seeing it as being a wise business decision for me. I have all the tuning, repair, maintenance, and action work I want, though. Others have to work at keeping busy. The markets vary widely. I say all of this because you sound like you are doing a personal survey. Some guys don't enjoy tuning every day and do shop work to enjoy their time - that was me. This is just my little opinion. Best of luck. And remember, when you're lying there dying, you won't be complaining that you didn't get to tune or rebuild enough pianos. $25 or $100 shop time, you're still dead......... Lance Lafargue, RPT Mandeville, LA New Orleans Chapter -----Original Message----- From: owner-pianotech@ptg.org [mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Brian Trout Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 8:20 AM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: Re: Economics of rebuilding grands ...Roger Hi Roger, Re: M&H, I guess it would make a difference what is going in. It got a new set of keytops/fronts, keys rebushed, rebedded, sharps refinished, and a new set of hammers which were from Schaff. And, of course, regulated. (Schaff hammers need some work, but I've usually had pretty good luck with getting a nice sound out of them.) Someone had already done some action work on the piano when we got it. It appeared to have had a new set of knuckles and a pretty thorough replacement of a lot of the action felts. The keytops/fronts were done by Walker Piano... $125 (we did the rebushing ourselves) Rebedding the keybed... is $15.00 of materials a reasonable number? A set of Schaff hammers... about $150 But lets say for the sake of argument that we did go ahead and spend $1500 for action parts. Does that mean we didn't make any money on the job? Not by a long shot. (I would actually have rather spent more on this job, but I'm not the guy who made that decision.) As I have progressed in the detail of work I'm doing, I have tended to put more into the pianos I do parts wise. But when you do that, the hours needed to 'refurbish' all those old parts are significantly diminished as well. As for a few other aspects of the job... Soundboard and ribs... North Hudson around $575 (includes shipping) Bridge materials... (guessing) $25 (Also from North Hudson) Damper felt...(Apsco) $35 ? All refinishing supplies, (Mohawk, W.Wordak, Decals Unlimited) $250, (includes decals) Tuning pins...(Apsco) $65 ? I'm guessing on some of these numbers, as I don't have all of the actual costs in front of me. But I think I'm in the 'ball park'. Perhaps for those who go Renner all the way, costs would be significantly higher. I have not taken that step yet. I have used Renner parts on occasion. They are beautiful. They are expensive. As are Hamburg S&S parts, beautiful and expensive. But if I can spend a few hundred dollars on parts, and a few hours of time to make an old action into one that plays very, very well, I don't feel ashamed that I haven't put on all new Renner parts. (There are exceptions, ...I'm too tired to get into every conceivable circumstance...) 'Used' pianos are a lot like used cars... they're all a little different. Some need more, some need less. Just my take from this angle. Thanks for sharing some of your perspective as well. I look forward to hearing from more people. No doubt, we all have a slightly different view. :-) Have a good day. Brian Trout Quarryville, PA btrout@desupernet.net -----Original Message----- From: Roger Jolly <baldyam@sk.sympatico.ca> To: pianotech@ptg.org <pianotech@ptg.org> Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 12:03 AM Subject: Re: Economics of rebuilding grands Hi Brian, I would like to know where you get your inexpensive parts, Action materials alone cost me about $1,500 US. Add a board, strings, pins, dampers and misc. other felt products, and the bill would be a lot more than $1,600. Regards Roger Roger Jolly Baldwin Yamaha Piano Centre Saskatoon and Regina Saskatchewan, Canada. 306-665-0213 Fax 652-0505 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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