was accu-tuner now tuning question

Billbrpt@AOL.COM Billbrpt@AOL.COM
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:02:04 EDT


In a message dated 7/15/99 12:28:14 PM EST, you write:

<< When I set the octave to the machine and then do
 the tests the octave sounds kind of flat or at the very most pure. I'm
 wondering if others have observed this or I have just been pushing the
 envelope of stretch so long that I'm used to this more aggressive style. It
 is most noticeable on low inharmonicity pianos. It seems like with a
 Steinway there is more room to customize the octaves and the accu-tuner
 seems to agree with that. >>

Your observations are correct and you are doing what most, but not all, 
tuners 
do these days.  The Steinway piano has more inharmonicity than most other 
pianos so it lends itself more easily to a wider temperament range octave 
with 5ths that are less tempered.  If you try to tune a low inharmonicity 
piano such as a Mason & Hamlin, Kawai or Baldwin 7 & 9 foot grand that way, 
you will have trouble making the same compromise work.

Using the inharmonicity to "absorb" the comma is one way of making the piano 
sound a little better in tune with itself.  However, it remains true that if 
you favor any one interval, octave, 5th, 3rd or otherwise (also double and 
triple octaves), you will inevitably cause another interval to be more 
compromised.

Therefore, using a lot of stretch in the temperament range will cause your 
3rds to beat faster and more harshly but it can help you have less of a 
problem making the outer octaves sound better in tune and have a more 
brilliant, better projecting and appealing sound.  Using the least amount of 
stretch in the mid range will make close harmony played there sound much 
sweeter.  If the piano you are tuning will not be used by someone who plays 
loud, fast and brilliant passages in the high treble but rather close harmony 
mostly in the middle, you might well not want to see how far you can go with 
the octave stretching compromises.

Dr. Sanderson, the inventor of the Accu-Tuner suggests that an ideal octave 
in the midrange be a 4:2 octave + 1 cent.  That is to say, greater than a 4:2 
octave by a small amount.  It may, in some cases be a 6:3 octave.  I usually 
use both the 4:2 and 6:3 tests to prove that I have a compromise between the 
two unless I am going for a minimal or maximal amount of stretch.

Here are some comments I made recently in a private post:

<<<< I would like to put this question to some friends of me who is very good 
jazzpianists.
 Is it possible to ask them this question about stretch?
 Have I got the right idea about stretch and will they understand the 
question? >>

I think some may understand the concept of stretched octaves and some may 
not.  Some may call it a brighter or a sharper tuning if it is stretched a 
lot and a duller, softer, mellower or flatter tuning if it is not stretched.  
One is not necessarily better than the other just as one temperament is not 
better than the other, each one creates its own effect.  

 <<Other tuners here tend to tune the "A" [minimal stretch], but I like "C" 
[maximum stretch] the most (Maybe "B"  [moderate stretch]in
 the middle). 
 What do you like?>>

I would say that my personal preference is the same as yours and it is 
preferred by most tuners but some like the "A"  or "B" description the best.
  
 <<Are there many different wishes here from pianists?>>

Yes, and I think that their preferences are about the same as most piano 
technicians'.  You will occasionally meet someone who will deliberately tell 
you not to stretch the octaves too much.  You will also have some, perhaps 
more, who will make a very deliberate point of telling you they want the 
upper octaves tuned "sharp".  You should do what the artist says in such a 
case.


<< Are there different wishes for different styles?>>

Generally, for public performances of Jazz and Classical music of the 
Romantic era, and piano concertos, you would choose type C [maximum stretch]. 
 For early music in a chamber setting, type A [minimum stretch].  For a 
living room in someone's home, type B [moderate stretch] but you can also 
choose any type in any situation for special reasons or to comply with a 
specific request. 

 If you are using a Historical Temperament, you would use type A with the 
17th Century temperaments, type B with the 18th Century and type C with the 
19th Century.  Again however, you can choose differently than the usual, just 
as you may choose to drink red wine with poultry rather than white and you 
may have a dry white wine with a steak.  It is all a matter of taste and 
preference.

<< Am I on wrong track?>>

In my opinion, you already have a good and correct idea about stretch.  You 
can educate the customer by telling them that the ear naturally wants to hear 
pitches sharper, the higher you go on the scale.  Because the piano strings 
have this curious phenomenon called Inharmonicity, where the higher harmonics 
of every string are very sharp, you can manipulate the tuning to take 
advantage of this property to satisfy what the ear wants to really hear 
anyway.

Every tuning decision has its consequences, however.  Any time you make any 
given interval more in tune or pleasing to the ear, you cause another to be 
less pleasing.  Tuning will always be an art of compromise. 

 Since the higher harmonics of any string are very sharp, very 
disproportionately sharp, you cannot favor them except in the very highest 
range of the piano.  They are also quick to decay.  This makes them less 
important than some of the lower harmonics.  Since you tune by ear, your ear 
is probably making the best judgment already.  Those who are dependent on 
Electronic Tuner programs have not developed that judgment.>>
 
The Accu-Tuner can tell you wether the piano you are working on has a low, 
moderate or high degree of inharmonicity.  This can also help you make the 
decision about how much stretch may be appropriate.

I hope this helps your understanding.

Sincerest regards,
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison, Wisconsin


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