Another thought about Steinway, and specific measurements in general

[Antares]

Hey but this is a very interesting remark! Maybe that is the key answer to
our debate.
I must confess that I have no experience at all with New York Steinways,
except one time, when me and my wife visited musician friends in NY. (I do
know however soem older NY Steinways here in Europe, but they are old, and
quite different from the modern version)
One of the friends had bought a Steinway grand and she asked me would I
please remove a pencil she had dropped in the action.
Me being a jolly and generous guy (;>() I opened up the instrument, pulled
out the action, removed the pencil and was startled by what I saw.
First I thought somebody had fooled her. Although I could tell from the
principle parts like the tubular frame etc that this was a Steinway, I did
not recognize it from the way I knew the Hamburg Steinways.
Later I got some more specific info about the differences between the
Hamburg and the New York Steinways and I now understand better why there is
a difference.
First of all the market is different and the prices are much lower, secondly
there is of course a big difference between the USA and Europe and emotions
could flare up easily over which instrument is better.
At the last Frankfurter Messe I talked to a Hamburg representative and he
told me that he liked the New York bass better than the Hamburg one and the
Hamburg treble better than the NY one.
Isn't that a nice statement? ?

Anyway, indeed I have never actually worked on an American Steinway and my
professional opinion is based only on the Hamburg type.
Same with the hammers, the voicing, or the felt in general. That fact alone
has already caused some "discussions" and I now understand better why and
how differences between different cultures could cause certain confusions.
And indeed, at the Hamburg factory they were RATHER precise in the use or
the applying of their own specifics, especially at the regulation and damper
department (not to mention the gruelling weeks at the voicing dept. on the
top floor). At Yamaha however they were indeed even more precise and
extremely dedicated and disciplined, hence, of course, my conscience and
sympathy for precision, and the use of every detail available.
To give you one example (if I may?)
At one time at the Yamaha Academy they showed a diagram of the hammer
movement and they gave a very precise and detailed "tour" of the hammer blow
distance, the let off, the drop, and finally the mysterious aftertouch. 
Actually, they already mentioned there and then the eventual deviations in
measurements : for the hammer blow distance they told the students that a
hammer blow should always be between 46 mm and 48 mm but no less, and no
more than that. 
The let off was 2,5 mm - 2 mm -1,5 mm precise (this was the first year, the
"basic grand piano course") the drop 2 mm and the aftertouch  >> no more <<
than 0,4 mm. They even gave the option of the "soft landing" or the "hard
landing".. i.e. much aftertouch or very little aftertouch.
For that reason they always checked the touch afterwards and, to make an
even feel all over the keyboard and went back many times to adjust hammer
blow distance and drop.
(this was "only" the beginners basic course...wet your whistles for the last
one! and/or spend some days with Damper-san from the concert grand dept...
yo will learn to love your very specific measurements! and your steel
nerves, which you need most urgently)

Anyway, what I am trying to explain here is that I agree that most certainly
there are several possibilities within the same "frame" but that these have
been described already in detail in several different factory manuals. 
Time for another capucino.....

Antares








>Antares wrote:
>>
>>But you know, I have (hey! me personally!) learned through all my terrible
>>experience of years and years of terrible piano- back bending, and this
>>learning actually from theYamaha techs....., that if you apply the one, and
>>the > right <, technique, every action will become a piece of yummy CAKE my
>>friends.
>
>I'm no action geometry guru BUT I did go to Rick Baldassin's and David
>Stanwood's classes at the NEECSO PTG Spring Regional in Quebec City, and
>one of the*major points* of their classes are that almost all NY Steinways
>have the potential for wide variation in their action geometry. My
>imperfect recollection is that this is a product of their assembly of the
>case, frame and keybed as a unit, and then establishing the action position
>to fit within those parameters. [I invite those of you with total recall to
>clarify this point]
>On the other hand, I believe (I learned in a Yamaha class) that Yamaha
>attaches the keybed after the assembly of the case, soundboard, and plate,
>allowing them to set the keybed to string dimension *perfectly*. So, as
>Antares writes, if you follow ALL the specs on a Yamaha action, everything
>should turn out perfectly. But that ain't always the case, especially with
>a NY Steinway.
>I forget precisely how the German Steinway differs in its manufacturing
>process, but it does allow for much greater uniformity than the NY Steinway
>(thus Antares is much more optimistic about Steinway specs than US
>technicians).
>
>In summary, I don't do alot of rebuilding (so I'm no authority), but I
>think it's good to discuss on the list precisely WHY  NY Steinway specs are
>"approximate" while Yamaha's may be "precise".
>
>Patrick
>
>
>