Oops?

[David Ilvedson]

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Terry,

That's me...defying physics for 28 years...I rarely break strings
also...;-]  I don't get that much drop in pitch...EVER!  Of course I may be
favoring the pitch to the sharp side as I'm going a long...slight roll to
the right...

David I.


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On 11/7/01 at 5:46 AM Farrell wrote:
It is hard to believe you end up with a piano at targeted pitch. Your
description appears to defy laws of physics. Consider the top two of four
sections on the grand. If the whole piano was 100 cents flat, starting at
A0, by the time you get to the upper treble those notes will be 120 or more
cents flat. Raise them to targeted pitch, and they will fall a good 33%, or
40 cents by the time you finish your first pass. Treble now 40 cents flat.
Start second pass targeting standard pitch, no overpull. Treble will be at
least another 10 cents flat by the time you get there, so it will be 50
cents flat. Raise treble to standard pitch, and they will fall a good 33%,
or 17 cents or so. The treble is now 17 cents flat after the second
pitch-raise pass.

Now you start your tuning pass with the treble 17 cents flat? Tenor will
likely be in the 10-cent flat area. If, on the tuning and final pass you do
not add any overpull, you will still end up at least 3 cents flat in tenor
and somewhere between 5 and 10 cents flat in treble. 

I have yet to see a piano that varies significantly from the above
description. Am I missing something?

"......am I concerned about the quality or stability of the tuning?"

Hmmmmm. Why do you not use any overpull to get the piano to pitch?

Terry Farrell

----- Original Message ----- 
From: David Ilvedson 
To: pianotech 
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: Oops?


I am in the minority, but I don't raise above pitch at all...If -100 cents,
I take a my FAC readings with those notes at correct pitch then bring each
string up to a correct pitch as per SAT from A0 to C8...if the tenor isn't
as flat as the rest of the piano it doesn't get raised any higher than any
other part of the piano.  So when I go through it a second time it is about
10 to 15 cents flat (I don't really care where...the piano decides that but
it isn't anywhere near 30 cents flat!) and I go through it again to pitch.
The bass is now reasonably stable and a quick 3rd time through the
tenor/treble and I'm done with the initial tuning...see ya in 3 to 6
months...am I concerned about the quality or stability of the tuning?  I
don't think so...I didn't let it go for 15 years...it's not my problem...I
don't use a temp strip, just mutes and tuning unisons as I go...

David I.

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On 11/5/01 at 7:35 PM Billbrpt@AOL.COM wrote:
In a message dated 11/5/01 6:16:31 PM Central Standard Time,
davidlovepianos@earthlink.net (David Love) writes: 


Also, so that those who are not familiar with your style of tuning are not
mislead, the standard pitch raise function should get the treble sharp
enough if you measure/reset frequently on the way up and if you are using
standard stretching.  I recall that you mentioned that in your tempered
octaves tuning you are +75 cents by the time you get to C8.  Those tuning
with normal stretch are more likely to reach only +40.  For your system
that would require additional stretch going up.  For others, they would end
up considerably sharp of the target and have to do a lowering before a fine
tuning.


Yes, but bear in mind that most of the time I use a more conventional
amount of stretch.  The triple octave/double octave and fifth comparison is
only for when I wan the absolute maximum and justifiable amount.   

Once I get into the last part of the 7th octave, all bets are off.  But
let's take a piano that is 1/2 step flat in the midrange.  That's 100%.
Very often, such a piano is not evenly low in pitch.  The high treble may
easily be 150% flat.  Now add 30 cents for the high treble for the usual
amount of stretch.  We're up to 180% now, which theoretically would take
+60 cents overpull.  Yipes! 

Maybe on a new or newly strung piano but even then, I'd prefer to work my
way up.  The danger of breaking a string or splitting the bridge on the
poor old Betsy Ross is simply too great.  Add to that the kind of test
blows needed to settle such a change and you'd be bustin' those elbows or
breaking the keys themselves at the balance rail. 

It all adds up to a claim that I would really like to see substantiated:  a
100% pitch raise in 2 passes that comes out "dead on".  I'm not from
Missouri but *show me* anyway. 

Bill Bremmer RPT 
Madison, Wisconsin


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