Bill, Very well stated. It's responses like this which puts springs in my steps. This list rules!!! Tom Servinsky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Ballard" <yardbird@pop.vermontel.net> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 11:52 PM Subject: Re: Unison Flatter than each Individual string? > At 8:24 PM -0700 8/21/02, David Ilvedson wrote: > >With a tuning fork, the "aural" tuner strikes the fork and roughs in > >the piano's note to the fork. Then, for instance, probably checks > >with a 10th interval between the piano's F-A and the piano's F and > >the fork's A. Makes adjustments to the piano's A4 string and with > >equal beating of these two 10ths', the note is absolutely in tune > >with the fork. Is this not archaic? With a ETD you tune the note > >until the lights/pattern stops and you have and absolute A440 or > >whatever pitch you want in a few moments. Is this ETD tuned note > >any less of a tuned note? I got to feel there's a lot of ego > >involved in tuning aurally with a tuning fork...that and masochism... > > I used a ETD this summer and I was grateful for its sharp ear and > sharper memory. An RCT. But I simply enjoy "rolling out a tuning" > aurally. And I appreciate an ability to do it, because for me I see > it as a gift. But this is the new millenium and if one wasn't born > with, or otherwise developed the ability for aural tuning, one can > always go out and buy it as a module to insert with all the rest of > one's native skills. There are plenty of tuners who do a wonderful > job of taking care of pianos, with plenty of the other skills > required to be a good piano service person. The particular ability to > tune aurally may have been one of them in decades past but it no > longer is. > > These pianos are being properly tuned, are they not? Harmony is > harmony whether a human being laid it out, or a machine ciphered it > out. (yelling from across the room..."just like the ad said, 'Now YOU > can tune pianos, while you watch TV' "...Botox injected.) > > At 9:42 AM +0200 8/22/02, Richard Brekne wrote: > >I have gotten into the habit of using intervals to tune stubborn > >unisons. Ofte > >times you can be pretty darn sure of a clean unison only to find it wangs > >uncomfortably much against a a neighboring 3rd or 4th. I end up just adjusting > >the unison til it sounds clean against both. Another advantage of the one mute > >approach. > > Quite literally, RicB, you're splitting the difference. You know > where the beat rates of the two conflicting intervals should be and > you split the error between the two of them, so that each is equally > near to where it should be. And suddenly, the whole spreadsheet > changes. <just kidding> . > > Virgil Smith made a passing mention of this in his PTJ article, > sometime in the early 90s' ('91, 92?). This was. He said that when > you run across an octave which needed to be adjusted (after finishing > the unison), frequently the error was small enough that all was > required was to slightly crack the unison (up or down, as needed) > with a mistuning of one string, and immediately to retune the other > string(s). Virgil of course never did his closest tuning with > numbers, and so he never suggested that the amount of correction was > a rational one. But there is a specific amount for that correction. > > About three years into the business, I discovered that the beat rate > of the complaining octave was the measure of the error, which then > could be applied to the note needing correction. Play a 3:1 12th, say > C5 and F3, memorize the spread of the beat rate between them, then on > the note to be corrected, pull one string harp or flat (as dictated), > so as to recreate that beat rate. (That's why you memorized it, > right?) Next, pull up the other strings to complete the unison. The > offending unison has been moved in the right direction, by the amount > it was off. (Now, if it's still off the mark, then the amount > corrected has not reduced the inevitable sag in pitch to a negligible > amount.) > > All I've done is to add a means of measuring the correction needed, > to what's probably a very common technique of mopping up error in the > tuning. RicB, Virgil Smith. But I wouldn't want my toolbag to be > without it. > > Now, back to ETDs. They'll tell you which individual notes don't > match pitch. They haven't a clue as to where all the other notes in > that field may be. ETDs can't play chords. Human being can. > > Bill Ballard RPT > NH Chapter, P.T.G. > > "I gotta go ta woik...." > ...........Ian Shoales, Duck's Breath Mystery Theater > +++++++++++++++++++++
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