Hearing the difference

[Richard Moody]

----- Original Message -----
From: David M. Porritt <dm.porritt@verizon.net>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: Hearing the difference


> After reading this 12-kbyte conversation, I have to ask Ric; in
> saying no one can tell the difference between a WT and ET, how
do you
> mean that?  Do you mean a technician can't tell by playing a few
> chords on the piano, or can't tell by listening to someone else
play
> something fast?

I can't tell the difference in music first of all.  For those who
can tell, I am waiting to see that demonstrated.  My post was
accidentally sent before I polished it. Sorry about that.  The HT
I
tuned was a straight Pythagorean.  I was surprised at how music
still sounded like music.  There are pure "3rds" in Pythagorean
even.  That is the most extreme temperament in that every 5th is
pure leaving one wolf.  If the wolf occurs, yes I can hear it.
    That lead me to wonder just how much out of tune it takes
to make the music different enough to  be objectionable or sound
different enough to be preferable.  You look at Meantone with 11
5ths flattened twice as much as ET and you might think THAT might
sound awful, but in fact something happens where the beating 5ths
are obscured by pure 3rds and in the "close keys" chordal music
such as hymns, carols, and folk music sounds beautiful.  There are
4 wolves in Meantone so when they occur, yes I do hear the
difference but   Meantone is only to be used in certain keys for
its optimum effect.  I could probably pick out MT "blind" but
haven't able to set up the test.

 >but if there are any
> sustained chords it becomes obvious.  A C-major triad in a Young
is
> quite different from ET and obvious if it is sustained any time
at
> all.  When I listened to the 2nd movement of the Pathetique on
Ed's
> Temperament CD it was so obvious I couldn't continue listening.

I listened to it following the score even.  To be fair I would
have to make sure to listen to the second movement of Pathetique
again.   Everything I heard I could not tell.  I was especially
eager to hear the second movement of Moonlight because I can play
some of that and it has lots of chords where  HT's are supposed to
make the most difference.  Again nothing, and as a tuner I ended
up listening to unisons and bass octaves.  It simply did not sound
"different" at all,  and  for sure not different enough to say I
could pick it out in a blind test.

This was the first recorded HT I had heard (that I know of).   And
it has led me to believe I may be deficient hearing the "tonality"
or "color" or intonation differences caused by other than ET.  I
am pretty sure I can recognize MT.   If it is true that some are
more sensitive to this tonality, do you think it can be taught to
others who are not?   Would be like teaching harmony to singers.
    Or is it like trying to teach to sing those who are "tone
deaf".   Some tone deaf can't sing but appreciate and can tell
when a song is sung in tune  or in good harmony.   Do you think it
is the same with "temperament deaf".
    Is this a phenomenon that can be demonstrated by blindly"
picking out piano music on recordings from those that are in ET?
If 3 versions of second Movement Path are played how many people
can pick out the one in HT?  If six are played and 3 are ET and 3
are HT, how many can tell the difference blind?
Do you think this would be a suitable demonstration for a class or
exhibit at the "National".    Play 5 examples of ET and 5 examples
of HT had poll the participants?   One could burn examples onto
one CD and randomly select the tracks.   Perhaps this could be set
up on a web site.

> While I, personally, still prefer ET on my piano, I will
> gladly tune any of the 77 non-ET tunings I have on my hard drive
for
> a customer. And I can certainly tell the difference.
>
> dave
>

You mentioned.................
   > That's because my ear/brain have been forever altered by 63
years of
> listening to ET.

Altered from what may I ask?     ---rm