etd for inharmonicity - not and ad !

[Isaac OLEG SIMANOT]

Hello Jason,

I am an ETD user (since 3 years) , and I finally find one which is able to
make a real computing with any piano (I talk of course of the VT100
Verituner)

I agree with you that the use of the EDT put your ears on a road of
chromatic tuning, and, even if I ALWAYS tune with the machine as if I was
tuning purely by ear (temperament, octaves, aural checks all along, "smell"
of the tone and the intervals), I too find that having a display I tend to
look at while listening is something that lend to schizophrenia.

I used the SAT for a few months, and I begin to appreciate the tunings I had
with it, but these where a very strong assumption of how the partials may be
aligned that I was putting in the pianos at these times.

Then I used RCT for 2 years with very good results for pitch raising, and
generally a good tuning computed from A1 to A6 , the rest sounding better by
ear almost always.

Now I have the VT100 which is a very good tuning tool, it is as an
electronic ear.

I uses it in 2 passes generally, trying not to be too much upset with the
note by note method, then I tune the piano aurally, while checking with the
machine if it agrees. With VT 100 the display is always something I can
understand. With all others it was at some time a very huge fight and time
lost.

If I tune totally without the tuner now, I feel it helped me to have a
better accuracy and I work very fast.

I work part time at S&S concert service in Paris, another tuner used to tune
with RCT since last year, but he stopped now the trade. Some of the VT100
tunings I put in the pianos in novemenber are still there now, after 5 other
tuners tune it.

With the VT100, I always obtain the finest tunings, it is always concert
level.

The most important problem I guess, is that even when tuning cheap or less
than good instruments, the tuner put you on the way to do a first class job.
Sometime an inspired cheap tuning will make these pianos sound better than a
perfect pure even tempered tuning.

Another problem is that I sometime loose my feeling of tone and unisons (the
flavour, or intention) because of the too nice purity and evenness, or
because of the fact that looking and hearing are 2 different activities.
Then a little pause, or someone to play me a few notes on the piano, and my
ears and brain reset.

I had to learn to have very little differences in pitch or tone when tuning
at the machine accuracy level. Yes we may be aware of our pin setting then
because it is easy to leave the pin where it is just because the display
stopped. New methods are necessary there, but these are the same that
concert tuners use when making touch up tunings (very little moves, put the
string in tension and tune with the playing hand, tune musically while
playing soft, etc)

A common problem I have too is that the tuners switch to the lowest note or
partial when you do aural checks, so I tend to do less than I want. (but
after a moment I understand where the machine is driving me so the test are
less necessary, and I can concentrate on building tone)

Anyway, if you can spend some money in a VT100, depending of the tunings you
have, I guess it will please you, but if you better want to have a more
general tool try RCT, or Tunelab maybe, any of these one partial display
tool is a good help when the conditions are bad, and help to have a good
temperament (fifths based generally, as the results with the 4th partial are
less good me think).

Good luck, I hope it helps.

And a very good year of course.

Isaac OLEG






> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : owner-pianotech@ptg.org [mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]De la part
> de Jason Kanter
> Envoyé : dimanche 6 janvier 2002 23:44
> À : pianotech@ptg.org
> Cc : Jason Kanter
> Objet : etd for inharmonicity
>
>
> greetings, piano technicians extraordinaire.
>
> i've been lurking here for a few weeks after an absence of 3 years. i am
> taking up piano tuning after a lapse of twenty years. i apprenticed to
> sheldon smith in 1970, passed the craftsman exam in 1971, and did a lot of
> tuning/rebuilding for ten years before cash flow dictated a career change.
>
> in the early 70's, sanderson's machines were establishing a name for
> themselves despite the default craftsman's resistance to electronic tuning
> aids. i learned aurally and did a very creditable tuning with lots of
> checking of thirds, sixths, double octaves and octave fifths.
>
> Now, as i re-enter the area, my considerable computer savvy [developed in
> the interim years] leads me with keen interest to the laptop or handheld
> etd's. i have downloaded tunelab 97 as shareware and used it
> once. planning
> to use it a lot in the coming weeks. printed out all the help
> files, some of
> the jim coleman discussions of november, read it all three times.
>
> by reading here and in the archives, i see that some of you use these
> devices intensively, and combine them with interval testing. what
> strikes me
> as most valuable is the ability of the etd to make a precise map of the
> inharmonicity ranges on a given piano, enabling you to select which
> intervals to rely on [which partials to listen to].
>
> can anyone offer a concise description of how you map a tuning to the
> inharmonicity readings on a given piano? Please describe your sequence,
> including when you save the file and how you name it for reuse
> next time. i
> am particularly interested in how you use the graphic view of the scale,
> whether you sample c2, c3, c4, c5, c6, c7 and also the tops and bottoms of
> string ranges, and how you annotate which partials you want to use for a
> given range.
>
> and a secondary question; from my single use of tunelab, i would predict
> that the machine encourages you to tune chromatically right through a
> section and not to 'stop and smell the intervals' as a good aural tuner is
> always doing. after all if you simply tune to the machine, chromatically,
> what you end up with is a pointillist set of sound dots and you may not be
> setting strings properly nor listening to the _musical_ sound of
> the piano.
> am i right/ and if so, how do you counter this tendency to tune
> chromatically/ [forgive my computer's errant shift key]
>
> thanks
>
> || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || |||
>  jason kanter * piano tuning * piano teaching
>  bellevue, wa * 425 562 4127 * cell 425 831 1561
>  orcas island * 360 376 2799
> || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || |||
>
>
>