Hi John, It's easy to show what happens with a 2 cent pitch correction with our fancy etd's. Do try a pitch correction of this order some time. I think you may be surprised at how much things really do move around. The over pull is essentially always necessary--it just finally gets too small to bother with. For me that level is 2 cents below pitch for concert level work. At 06:58 PM 01/14/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Am I reading this correctly, a pitch raise for 2 cents flat? >I obviously have not been particular enough, for years. Funny thing, non of >my customers complain, and they get me back. >Being fair though, a lot of the customers have it done, every 5 years or >more, whether it needs it or not. >So that accuracy, would be wasted on them. >Regards, >John M. Ross >jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com> >To: <pianotech@ptg.org> >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:26 PM >Subject: Re: tuning speed > > >> > Ok, so 2 passes is always better than one. >> >> IMHO, yes, but if everything is within one cent, and some pretty much >right >> on, I will sometime just do one pass. >> >> > when a piano is, within, >> > say, 2 or 3 cents, is one pass OK? >> >> OK, yes. Good, no. If a piano or a section of a piano is 2 cents flat, I >> will make a separate pitch raise pass through that area. >> >> > Also, what is the farthest flat for a piano to be >> > before you all might recommend three passes (one up to >> > pitch with no overpull, second with overpull, third >> > fine tune)? >> >> For me, somewhere in the 50 to 60 cents range. >> >> > Also, is there ever any case where >> > someone would recommend four or more passes? (We'll >> > assume that the pinblock and bridges are in fair >> > condition (good enough to take a pitch raise).) >> >> Sure! I tuned one piano in a soon-to-be Florida State Historical >> somethingorother. Old Civil-War era farmhouse had been abandoned since the >> great depression. In it stood the old upright from the 1870s straight >> strung. I did at least four passes - I think quite a few more - I lost >> count. It was a good 400 or 500 cents flat as I recall. Just wanted to go >a >> tad at a time. I seem to recall that we left it 50 cents flat or so - they >> needed to lock the place up. But they did have their sing along with the >> piano the next weekend. My contact lady said all went well! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Stephen Airy" <stephen_airy@yahoo.com> >> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> >> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 4:00 PM >> Subject: Re: tuning speed >> >> >> > Ok, so 2 passes is always better than one. >> > >> > Here's part of my question -- when a piano is, within, >> > say, 2 or 3 cents, is one pass OK? Or, what is the >> > max it can be off before two passes is recommended? >> > >> > Also, what is the farthest flat for a piano to be >> > before you all might recommend three passes (one up to >> > pitch with no overpull, second with overpull, third >> > fine tune)? Also, is there ever any case where >> > someone would recommend four or more passes? (We'll >> > assume that the pinblock and bridges are in fair >> > condition (good enough to take a pitch raise).) >> > >> > --- David Love <davidlovepianos@earthlink.net> wrote: >> > > Reading all these posts on whether one pass or two >> > > is more accurate I think >> > > that the focus has been in the wrong area. All >> > > things being equal, two >> > > passes will always be more accurate than one. A >> > > second pass at some level >> > > should always be done to insure accuracy. The >> > > question should really be >> > > about what should be accomplished on each pass. The >> > > answer lies partially >> > > in the psychology of perception. >> > > >> > > One's ability to make fine discriminations will >> > > always be related to the >> > > range of the field. The smaller the range, the >> > > greater ones ability to make >> > > fine discriminations. In practice, that means that >> > > if you are pulling the >> > > piano into tune from all over the place, you will >> > > not be able to >> > > discriminate subtleties in the quality of the >> > > unisons that you would be if >> > > the piano were already basically in tune. >> > > Similarly, for example, if you >> > > are adjusting repetition springs and the tensions >> > > are somewhat chaotic, you >> > > will not be able to perceive small differences as >> > > easily on the first pass >> > > as you will on the second. Thus the argument for >> > > going over a regulation >> > > more than once as well. >> > > >> > > As far as what you should try to accomplish on each >> > > pass, then, on the first >> > > pass you should try to get the piano in as good tune >> > > as possible without >> > > lingering too long. My goal is that if I leave it >> > > after the first pass, I >> > > won't have much doubt as to its acceptibility. You >> > > should definitely >> > > concentrate on making sure that each string is set >> > > and stable. For me that >> > > means tuning with test blow force, checking with >> > > soft blows, and not leaving >> > > any string until I am confident that it is going to >> > > stay there. A quick >> > > first pass that doesn't achieve at least that is, to >> > > me, a waste of time. >> > > On the second pass, one should only be listening to >> > > the unisons and making >> > > very small refinements. The fewer changes you have >> > > to make, the easier it >> > > will be to make very fine discriminations. You >> > > certainly don't want to be >> > > guessing as to whether any note will withstand a >> > > hard blow. If you are in >> > > doubt, you better check each pin again. One or two >> > > unisons that don't hold >> > > from normal playing is too many. >> > > >> > > As far as speed goes, it doesn't really matter. If >> > > you find after much >> > > practice that it takes you 4 hours to tune a piano >> > > you might want to >> > > consider whether your ability to earn enough money >> > > might be compromised. I >> > > personally can't do a good solid tuning in much less >> > > than an hour and it's >> > > usually 1.00 - 1.25 hours for a piano that is >> > > basically out of tune. When I >> > > was a strict aural tuner, it took a little bit >> > > longer. I do them faster >> > > sometimes for a variety of reasons, but I like to >> > > feel confident when I >> > > leave the piano that there aren't any whiny unisons >> > > and that the piano will >> > > stand up to very hard playing. I charge accordingly >> > > and make no compromises >> > > between my ability to earn a living and deliver >> > > quality work. >> > > >> > > David Love >> > > >> > >> > >> > __________________________________________________ >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! >> > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ >> >> > > > Regards, Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.M.T., R.P.T. mailto:drpt@sk.sympatico.ca http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/ 3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK S4S 5G7 306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner
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