Cordier temperament & tempered octaves

Isaac OLEG SIMANOT oleg-i@wanadoo.fr
Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:36:51 +0100


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Mr. Breemer, Thanks for your thanks !

I've find a German tuner which is on the Web and explain that he find too
this tempering method (tempering by the twelve this
time).http://www.piano-stopper.de/html/stotune.htm (in German at these
times)

I wonder if you strip mute the piano, because I can't tune accurately with
this method, the focus point which correspond,d to the 'octave tempering'
seems lost (to me anyway,) went strip muting.

Have you an idea on why the unisons color is changed too ?

When tuning with a less stretched, more "classical" way, I often have
unisons phasing differently. I try to avoid at any price the exaggeration
when it comes to stretch , because the sound can be too aggressive then, and
the color is then lost.

Anyway your method is a real "ear opener" . When tired it is difficult to
accept the strong sound of the piano, but if the sound is warm and strong
together, then everything is easy.
As I am a "perfect ear guy" this method is easy. Personally I like the color
of the fifths and twelve's when they move, I don't like the Cordier fifths
so much, that is because some life remains in the twelve's that I like your
sound. I wonder if we are not having the higher partials giving the life in
the interval, as the classical 3:1 ratio is certainly more than pure.

How do you tune the bass with your method ? for me the  fast rolling of the
tenths is not acceptable in classical tuning, but when it comes to open the
sound then it does not disturb  (funny is not it !)

 Perhaps some of those who find it hard to believe that I can tune as
quickly as I can and do "all the checks" will realize that I don't need to
any more than just one for each of the notes in the 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th and
7th octaves and have results just as quickly and accurately as if I had used
an ETD

I guess that primarily it is a different way of hearing, first I learned to
open my unisons (takes a long time), then my octaves and now I can open many
intervals with the same warm sound quality.

 Now, Oleg, if you will make the effort to try to learn the EBVT, I am sure
that you will find it to be superior to the Cordier temperament.  You will
get the same good effect with Romantic music as you get with the Cordier but
earlier music played in the simple keys with close harmony will sound much
more harmonious.

In my opinion, the idea of tuning a temperament with all pure 5ths is self
serving to the tuner only
-It is a essay to have a better sound first, sure it is easier for the
tuner, but it have it's value in schools where less than good instruments
are available, and there are not enough tunings.
Because may be of the fixity of these temperament and tuning mode, the
pianos seems to hold tune longer, I mean that it accept a lot of drifting.
and moving .
But I had remarks of musicians that it can be tiring (boring) for their ears
with time. That is why some tuners using the Cordier method modify it on
some pianos (Yamahas i.e.)



 Therefore, it is better to accept that fact and *arrange* the consequences
to align themselves with the Cycle of 5ths.  The tempered 5th sound that is
displeasing to a tuner will not be heard in the typical musical context.
The EBVT, as many HT's do provides a canceling out effect that causes that
tempered sound to be "swallowed".  Also, my Tempered Octave method "cleans
up" this sound in the outer octaves.  The EBVT with Tempered Octaves will
provide you with the cleanest, purest, most harmonious sounding piano you
have ever heard.  Try it and you will be amazed.

I guess that I begin to have an idea of what it can do ( I will try it for
sure). One of our best tuners (retired now) , used to tune a temperament
that you hear as being absolutely even (ET kind), but with much more color
All "Romantics asked him" . When listening to the thirds, they all grow up
quietly in sequence, but If you check it against a EDT , you find a lot of
jumps that you can't understand where they come from, because they are
basically not perceptible when listening. Of course if you begin to listen
to the partials there you will find the "errors" , but if you listen to the
partials you stop tuning BMO - that is why it is so difficult to use these
ETD while trying to tune musically.


Regards, I will let you know the following.

Isaac OLEG









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