This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Wow, interesting. I have studied and played classical guitar for over 35 = years -- never even thought about tuning the guitar any differently than = I learned way back when. And I'm a piano tech!?!?!?!?! I'm going to have a little fun experimenting with your ideas and will = report back in a few days ... Thanks, Alan R. Barnard Salem, MO ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Billbrpt@AOL.COM=20 To: pianotech@ptg.org ; macman@pathfinder.dnsalias.com=20 Cc: tuning@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 5:31 PM Subject: Guitar Tuning for Man of La Mancha List,=20 Once again, as I expected would be inevitable, I had to intervene in = the production of Man of La Mancha by our local theater company for the = tuning of the on stage guitar. The company simply could not find a = guitarist willing to attend all of the rehearsals and do everything else = that is required. One of the youngest singers and actors has a guitar = however, and is learning to play it. He offered to do what he can.=20 He has an electronic tuner for it and a clamp on capo bar. The first = few times he played, I just listened to whatever sound he was getting. = He really is only playing during 2 numbers, the opening Flamenco style = chant (some chords in Bb minor) and for the song, "Little Bird, Little = Bird" in which I am the principal vocalist. He really is exposed in = this number, however because he will be the only instrumentalist heard. = There will be no other orchestra accompaniment. Naturally, I have a = vested interest in what kind of sound will be my accompaniment.=20 The G major chord he plays for the Little Bird song sounded pretty = sour to me, even more than Equal Temperament is supposed to be. I told = him I knew of a special way to tune that would make it sound much = sweeter. He agreed to have me help him tune it for the next rehearsal. = I brought in my Sanderson Accu-Tuner in which I had set up the Vallotti = style Well Tempered Tuning for guitar that I had designed under very = similar circumstances 10 years ago.=20 I got the very same reaction I have witnessed every single time I have = done this: the jaw drops, the eyes open wide in amazement at the = beautiful sound of the harmony produced by tuning the guitar this way. = I then had him clamp on the capo bar and play the Bb minor chord that = goes with the Flamenco style chant: another look of amazement at the = beautifully clear but dark and disturbing sound of the minor chord in 5 = flats in a true, Well Tempered Tuning. The F Major dominant chord of = that key also sounds beautifully clear and true.=20 Now, I have written about this before and had any number of people, = all guitarists of high degrees of skill tell me rather specifically and = often quite harshly that this *cannot* be done! Needless to say, I have = heard much the same kinds of hard headed opinions about the way I tune = the piano but obviously, I have never believed in what anyone told me, I = have only believed in what I hear as the results of my work.=20 Below are the actual figures programed into my Accu-Tuner. They may = not look "right" to you. But ask yourself, has any set of figures for = tuning the piano, regardless of temperament ever looked "right" or = logical? They don't because of the omnipotent presence of the factor = known as Inharmonicity. All of these values are read on Octave 4. That = means that the lowest two strings are read on the 4th partial, the = middle three on the 2nd partial and the highest on its fundamental.=20 When Inharmonicity is taken into account, it skews everything, making = the numbers appear irrational. These figures were arrived at however, = by aural tuning first, then reading the results with the Accu-Tuner. = The figures were rounded off to convenient whole numbers, much the way I = round of my figures to the nearest 1/2 cent when creating a piano tuning = program. The figures can also be halved which creates a "Victorianized" = version of the same idea.=20 IMPORTANT: All Values are Read on Octave 4=20 Note Vallotti Victorian=20 E2 -4.0 -2.0=20 A2 0.0 0.0=20 D3 2.0 1.0=20 G3 4.0 2.0=20 B3 -2.0 -1.0=20 E4 0.0 0.0=20 My piano technology apprentice, Tyler Smith has been to a rehearsal of = the show and heard how the piano tuned in Equal Beating Victorian = Temperament (EBVT) (click on the link to my website for information on = that) and saw how the guitar was tuned. Although he is only 18 years = old, he is quite well read and knowledgeable in many subjects. He was = born in 1984 but he has read George Orwell's novel by that same name as = well as other books by the same author.=20 I found it interesting that he knows that author and interprets the = stories much the same way I do. The Guild of American Luthiers has a web = page which explains its views on how a guitar should be tuned. My = comment about that writing is that it looks like George Orwell himself = had written it. It basically says that you cannot do what I have done, = don't even think about it. Just do what Big Brother tells you is right = and eventually, you'll learn to like it.=20 Here is the link to that web page:=20 http://w3.ime.net/~cygnus/equal_temperament.html=20 The web page is really meant to instruct guitarists on how not to make = the same basic errors that piano technicians are prone to making by = tuning 4ths & 5ths too purely. If the open strings of the guitar are = tuned to pure 4ths (and the A2-E4 octave and 5th made pure), the 3rd, = G3-B3 and the 6th, D3-B3 will be far too wide, having a "sour" sound to = them and effectively be Pythagorean 3rds (22 cents wide). The web page = teaches the guitar tuner not to tune the intervals so purely but it also = says that there is no other alternative.=20 All I do with both of my above arrangements is simply temper the 4ths = & 5ths a little more. The Valotti style temperament has the 4ths and = 5ths tempered exactly twice as much as Equal Temperament. I have = learned over the years to question and prove wrong such iron fisted = statements as are made in the Luthiers Guild web page. =20 There has been much the same kind of teaching about piano tuning for = the last hundred years but more and more, people are beginning to = realize that there really are some alternatives to Equal Temperament = which can and do work really well with all of the kinds of music the = piano is expected to play. I see no reason this can't be so with the = guitar as well. I did once see a guitarist of the highest caliber from = New York who took a lot of time on stage carefully tuning his guitar in = exactly the same way as I describe below.=20 Here are the aural tuning instructions for accomplishing the Vallotti = style Well Tempered Tuning on a six string guitar.=20 1. Tune A2 to A-440 fork or other aural pitch source.=20 2. Tune E4 from A2 a pure octave and 5th first, then flatten E2 until = the Octave and 5th has a lilting beat to it, about 1 beat per second.=20 3. Tune E2 from A4 a pure 4th first, then flatten E2 until the 4th = beats at 2 beats per second. This should create a slightly stretched = double octave from E2-E4. The double octave should have a very slow, = roll to it of about 1/2 beat per second.=20 4. Tune D3 from A2 a pure 4th first, then sharpen D3 until the 4th = beats at 2 beats per second.=20 5. Tune G3 from D3 a pure 4th first, then sharpen G3 until the 4th = beats at 2 beats per second.=20 6. Tune B3 from E4 a pure 4th first, then flatten B3 until the 4th = beats at 2 betas per second.=20 The results of this should be that the 3rd, G3-B3 and the 6th, D3-B3 = now also beat at the same slow, 2 beat per second rate. When all of the = 4ths and the 3rd an 6th all beat at the same slow, gentle rate, the = tuning is accomplished.=20 Bill Bremmer RPT=20 Madison, Wisconsin=20 Click here: -=3Dw w w . b i l l b r e m m e r . c o m =3D-=20 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/0f/67/09/7c/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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