Gordon, I understand your reluctance to leave out the sealer betwixt filler and stain, but believe me, I and many others, have done innumerable pianos by staining directly onto the pore filled and sanded wood, then sealing. There will be no problem. The filler ONLY goes into the pores. Its color can't come out and muddy up the wood. Really. Another fun thing about PianoLac Cream Pore Filler: since it's sandable, its application saves time because it becomes part of the sanding operation, not a separate step as with solvent borne paste wood filler. Arthur Grudko www.pianolac.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordon stelter" <lclgcnp@yahoo.com> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 9:36 PM Subject: Re: Refinishing - Stripping & Stain Uneveness > P.S. The point of the water-soluble stain under a > petro-solvent topcoat is that the water dye-stain will > not bleed into the topcoat, creating that "muddy" look > we see on so many refinish jobs. The filler won't > bleed, either, if it is dry enough, in the pores only, > and topcoated with a few thin coats, first. > Now, I WOULD like to try Pianolac due to the > safety and other benefits of its use. and I know > nothing of its application. But I still recommend a > sealer coat between the stain and filler, so that the > filler ONLY goes in the pores, and does not muddy up > the wood in-between with its pigments. > Thump > > --- gordon stelter <lclgcnp@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I meant a dye coat first. I am a tad perplexed by > > Arthur Grudco's allegation that pigment stains are > > more fade resistant than aniline dyes, as I thought > > it > > was actually the other way around. At least with > > water-soluble aniline dyes, which is what I > > recommend. > > They are, I believe, more fade resistant than your > > typical oil-based pigment-stain . (i.e. "Minwax"). > > And, yes, you MUST be sure that your > > filler-coat > > is darker than the surrounding stained wood, > > (unless you want a "novelty" finish)! > > AND IGNORE WHAT IT SAYS ON THE CAN!!! The last > > "Mahogany" filler I bought was the color of pencil > > erasers! and NO amount of Universal Tint fixed it. > > But "Walnut" filler, on a thin sealer coat, over a > > mahogany dye stain was PERFECT ( For a mahogany > > piano! > > Thump > > > > > > I will have to try this. Something about > > > this is puzzling to me > > > > though. If the paste wood filler is applied > > after > > > the sealer and before a > > > > top coat what are you doing about the color of > > the > > > filler? > > > > > > > > Greg Newell > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. did you mean stain first or die first? > > Stain > > > is more like paint in > > > > that it sits on top while die penetrates the > > wood > > > to a much higher degree. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 02:27 PM 4/28/2003, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >You should apply the stain first, then a thin > > > sealer > > > > >coat of finish, and then sand off raised > > > whiskers... > > > > >LIGHTLY!!!!.( 320 grit wet or dry ) And THEN > > > apply the > > > > >paste wood filler! AND THEN topcoat. This > > > schedule > > > > >will provide a MUCH, MUCH cleaner looking > > > piano!!! > > > > > Thump > > > > > > > > > >--- Greg Newell <gnewell@ameritech.net> wrote: > > > > > > Terry, > > > > > > Rockler Woodworking and Hardware > > has > > > a > > > > > > product called Wunderfil > > > > > > which is just your basic wood paste filler. > > > I've not > > > > > > been too crazy about > > > > > > it for it's tendency to lift out ( minor > > > amounts) > > > > > > when you are brushing on > > > > > > the water based die and or stain. I'm > > > think9ing of > > > > > > switching to alcohol > > > > > > based so that the filler stays put when I > > > re-wet > > > > > > with the die or stain. > > > > > > > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:52 AM 4/27/2003, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi Greg. What are you filling grain with? I > > > have > > > > > > always used > > > > > > >marine-oriented filler/stain in the past. I > > > am > > > > > > interested in going > > > > > > >water-based just to cut down the fumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Terry Farrell > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >From: "Greg Newell" <gnewell@ameritech.net> > > > > > > >To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> > > > > > > >Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 3:57 PM > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Refinishing - Stripping & > > Stain > > > > > > Uneveness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terry, > > > > > > > > You can stain, sure, but start > > > with an > > > > > > anneline or a water based > > > > > > > > dye first. That will help make the color > > > much > > > > > > more even. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 03:23 PM 4/26/2003, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Refinishing question. I started > > stripping > > > a > > > > > > piano - the typical reddish > > > > > > > > >stained mahogany. The finish was > > > original. I > > > > > > have always used chemical > > > > > > > > >strippers before but I am trying > > scraping > > > this > > > > > > time. The scraping > > > > > > > seems to > > > > > > > > >go easy and well, except that you end > > up > > > with > > > > > > some areas of stain largely > > > > > > > > >removed and some areas remaining, > > > resulting in > > > > > > a blotchy appearance. I > > > > > > > > >have sanded, and that helps a little, > > but > > > it is > > > > > > still blotchy and sanding > > > > > > > > >is tough because the sandpaper just > > loads > > > up in > > > > > > three seconds flat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >My guess is that when I re-stain (will > > be > > > going > > > > > > with a similar color) > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > >blotchyness will remain. Using chemical > > > > > > strippers in the past has yielded > > > > > > > > >fairly even-colored wood to work with - > > > so I > > > > > > don't really know what will > > > > > > > > >happen if the blotchy color is stained. > > > Anyone > > > > > > with any experience with > > > > > > > > >this? Recommendations? Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Terry Farrell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > >pianotech list info: > > > > > > > > https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greg Newell > > > > > > > > mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > pianotech list info: > > > > > > > > https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > > >pianotech list info: > > > > > > > > https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > > > > > > > > > > > Greg Newell > > > > > > mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > pianotech list info: > > > > > > > > https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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