Refinishing - Stripping & Stain Uneveness

[gordon stelter]

Yes, Arthur, THIS part I do agree with! 
     The last time I tried water-borne filler ( 10
years ago-"Hydrocote" I think )  it dried to the
consistency of hard brass! And as it dried too light
for the surrounding wood, removing from the grain to
start over again was MURDER!
     But I imagine that much has changed in the last
decade, and I DO see the logic of your process, if the
products have improved as much as suspected.
     Best Wishes
     Thump
     ( But I'd still never "sand with 100 grit" to
even up the tone on newly-stripped, old veneer.
     Too risky.
     Too much work! )
--- pianolac <pianolac@bestweb.net> wrote:
> Gordon,
> I understand your reluctance to leave out the sealer
> betwixt filler and
> stain, but believe me, I and many others, have done
> innumerable pianos by
> staining directly onto the pore filled and sanded
> wood, then sealing.  There
> will be no problem.  The filler ONLY goes into the
> pores.  Its color can't
> come out and muddy up the wood.  Really.
> 
> Another fun thing about PianoLac Cream Pore Filler: 
> since it's sandable,
> its application saves time because it becomes part
> of the sanding operation,
> not a separate step as with solvent borne paste wood
> filler.
> 
> Arthur Grudko
> www.pianolac.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gordon stelter" <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>
> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 9:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Refinishing - Stripping & Stain
> Uneveness
> 
> 
> > P.S. The point of the water-soluble stain under a
> > petro-solvent topcoat is that the water dye-stain
> will
> > not bleed into the topcoat, creating that "muddy"
> look
> > we see on so many refinish jobs. The filler won't
> > bleed, either, if it is dry enough, in the pores
> only,
> > and topcoated with a few thin coats, first.
> >      Now, I WOULD like to try Pianolac due to the
> > safety and other benefits of its use. and I know
> > nothing of its application.  But I still recommend
> a
> > sealer coat between the stain and filler, so that
> the
> > filler ONLY goes in the pores, and does not muddy
> up
> > the wood in-between with its pigments.
> >      Thump
> >
> > --- gordon stelter <lclgcnp@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > I meant a  dye coat first. I am a tad perplexed
> by
> > > Arthur Grudco's allegation that pigment stains
> are
> > > more fade resistant than aniline dyes, as I
> thought
> > > it
> > > was actually the other way around. At least with
> > > water-soluble aniline dyes, which is what I
> > > recommend.
> > > They are, I believe, more fade resistant than
> your
> > > typical oil-based pigment-stain . (i.e.
> "Minwax").
> > >      And, yes, you MUST be sure that your
> > > filler-coat
> > > is darker than the surrounding stained wood,
> > > (unless you want a "novelty" finish)!
> > >      AND IGNORE WHAT IT SAYS ON THE CAN!!! The
> last
> > > "Mahogany" filler I bought was the color of
> pencil
> > > erasers!  and NO amount of Universal Tint fixed
> it.
> > > But "Walnut" filler, on a thin sealer coat, over
> a
> > > mahogany dye stain was PERFECT ( For a mahogany
> > > piano!
> > >      Thump
> > >
> > >
> > >         I will have to try this. Something about
> > > > this is puzzling to me
> > > > > though. If the paste wood filler is applied
> > > after
> > > > the sealer and before a
> > > > > top coat what are you doing about the color
> of
> > > the
> > > > filler?
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg Newell
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. did you mean stain first or die first?
> > > Stain
> > > > is more like paint in
> > > > > that it sits on top while die penetrates the
> > > wood
> > > > to a much higher degree.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At 02:27 PM 4/28/2003, you wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >You should apply the stain first, then a
> thin
> > > > sealer
> > > > > >coat of finish, and then sand off raised
> > > > whiskers...
> > > > > >LIGHTLY!!!!.( 320 grit wet or dry ) And
> THEN
> > > > apply the
> > > > > >paste wood filler! AND THEN topcoat.  This
> > > > schedule
> > > > > >will provide a MUCH, MUCH cleaner looking
> > > > piano!!!
> > > > > >      Thump
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- Greg Newell <gnewell@ameritech.net>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > Terry,
> > > > > > >          Rockler Woodworking and
> Hardware
> > > has
> > > > a
> > > > > > > product called Wunderfil
> > > > > > > which is just your basic wood paste
> filler.
> > > > I've not
> > > > > > > been too crazy about
> > > > > > > it for it's tendency to lift out ( minor
> > > > amounts)
> > > > > > > when you are brushing on
> > > > > > > the water based die and or stain. I'm
> > > > think9ing of
> > > > > > > switching to alcohol
> > > > > > > based so that the filler stays put when
> I
> > > > re-wet
> > > > > > > with the die or stain.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Greg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At 08:52 AM 4/27/2003, you wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Hi Greg. What are you filling grain
> with? I
> > > > have
> > > > > > > always used
> > > > > > > >marine-oriented filler/stain in the
> past. I
> > > > am
> > > > > > > interested in going
> > > > > > > >water-based just to cut down the fumes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Terry Farrell
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > >From: "Greg Newell"
> <gnewell@ameritech.net>
> > > > > > > >To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > > > > > > >Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 3:57 PM
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Refinishing - Stripping &
> > > Stain
> > > > > > > Uneveness
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Terry,
> > > > > > > > >          You can stain, sure, but
> start
> > > > with an
> > > > > > > anneline or a water based
> > > > > > > > > dye first. That will help make the
> color
> > > > much
> > > > > > > more even.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Greg
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > At 03:23 PM 4/26/2003, you wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Refinishing question. I started
> > > stripping
> > > > a
> > > > > > > piano - the typical reddish
> > > > > > > > > >stained mahogany. The finish was
> > > > original. I
> > > > > > > have always used chemical
> > > > > > > > > >strippers before but I am trying
> > > scraping
> > > > this
> > > > > > > time. The scraping
> > > > > > > > seems to
> > > > > > > > > >go easy and well, except that you
> end
> > > up
> 
=== message truncated ===


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