This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Bernhard: You don't want your pivot point to be at the center of percussion. = Actually that's physically impossible since your radius of gyration = would have to be zero. The whole point of using the center of = percussion is that you want it to be where you strike the rotating = object (hammer) so that it results in zero force on the pivot. Don A. Gilmore Mechanical Engineer Kansas City ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bernhard Stopper=20 To: Pianotech=20 Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Cockeyed hammers / Don Gilmore Don, Sarah my last post has to be corrected(fat cursive): To design a hammer so that its pivot coincides with the center of = percussion is THE way to get a free sound and the maximum of energy = transfer to the string. it also allows the hammer to reject the fastest = way possible because oscillations in the pivot produce friction and slow = down hammer movement at contact point.=20 i did several simulations with software called pro/mechanica and = reshaped hammers after results found. one could say that actual hammer = with heavy felts have their center of percussion much far away from the = pivot than lighter hammers have. putting a small lead in the tail of the = hammer can make them come closer to that point. center of hammer mass = should ly on a line along the center of the hammer shank and the center = of percussion coincides with the pivot, when hammer shank length x is = calculated by the formula x=3DI/(m*y) with I=3D moment of inertia, = m=3Dmass, y=3Ddistance pivot - center of mass regards, Bernhard ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Don A. Gilmore=20 To: Pianotech=20 Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 12:22 AM Subject: Re: Cockeyed hammers / Don Gilmore Well, I didn't mean to imply that the impulse at the pivot is all = absorbed; but it is all lost as far as the string is concerned. The center of percussion is one of those counter-intuitive phenomena = in dynamics. For the multitude of college students that only take a = semester or two of physics, the concept of forces on a free body acting = at the center of gravity is a paradigm that is hard to dislodge. For an = object in free space or translating in a straight line, which comprises = most situations, the center of gravity is always used. But for an = object pivoted at some location other than its c.g., all bets are off. = The most publicized version of this is a baseball bat's "sweet spot" as = you described. Think of a wooden board hung from a pivot point at its top. If you = strike the board up near the hinge, the pin will experience a force = coming from the direction of the strike. But if you strike the board at = the bottom, the pin will experience a force in the opposite direction as = the board tries to spin about its center. There is a point in between = these two where the pin force is neither positive nor negative and the = pin will actually see no force. This is the center of percussion and is = not located at the centroid of the board. It's not usually even = particularly close. It would seem to be a good idea to design the hammer so that the = string contact point of the head passes through the center of = percussion. That way the maximum amount of energy would be transmitted = to the string...like dropping a ball on it. But I'm not sure if they = actually design them that way. Don A. Gilmore Mechanical Engineer Kansas City ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Sarah Fox=20 To: Pianotech=20 Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 2:38 AM Subject: Cockeyed hammers / Don Gilmore Probably any baseball player would know that it's not smart to hit = the ball with the very tip of the bat. It makes for a nasty shock to = the hands (and to the extent that the hands are not rigid in space, it = takes away from the power transferred to the ball). Why do they do this = with piano hammers? More to the point, is this not considered an = unneccessary demand to put on the hammer flanges and bushings? Perhaps = it's also a drain on efficiency? Wouldn't it make sense to have some = sort of asymmetrical molding whose center of mass is on the far side of = the action center, so as to put the center of mass of the hammer = assembly closer to the line of strike? Also, wouldn't it at least make sense to angle the head of the = hammer inwards slightly, so that the radius to the head's center of mass = is perpendicular to the strike axis of the head? It seems to me that = this would help to control wobble in the hammer I'm not sure I agree about part of the impact being "absorbed" by = the pivot. Sure, there would be force against the pivot, but for impact = to be absorbed, the pivot would need to be compliant and inelastic. I = realize that's true to an extent, as no system is ideal. However, do = you think this would be a substantial drain of energy? It seems to me = that the hammer felt and the strings are far more compliant and are = closer to the center of mass, such that almost all of the energy would = be dissipated there (rather than at the comparatively rigid center). = Have you ever measured this? Just curious on your take. I can't do much more than scratch my = head about this one. If the hammer were perfectly rigid and the center = bullet proof and noncompliant, there'd be nothing to worry about. But = considering that it does the hokey pokey and shimmies all about... = Well, I don't know. Peace, Sarah ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/c1/58/28/a6/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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