Americus Vespucci

gordon stelter lclgcnp@yahoo.com
Sat, 15 Mar 2003 05:02:42 -0800 (PST)


After his first visit, Americus Vespucci wrote a
pornographic book on the sexual prowess of the native
women here, which was a runaway best seller all over
Europe, greatly inciting interest ( among uncouth men,
at least ) in travelling to the "New World".
     And that, dear friends, is the actual reason why
these lands were named in his "honor".
     No kidding.
     Thump

--- A440A@aol.com wrote:
> R. Moody  writes:
>  >>who was Columbus's navigator?
> 
> I said:
> 
> > Americus Vespucci.  Our country is named for him.
> 
> >> Unless the Encyclopedia Britannica is wrong,
> Vespucci was not on board in 
> 1492,  he did
> 
> not meet Columbus until the 3rd voyage.  
> 
>     Actually, my elem. school teachers were wrong
> first so I was taught 
> otherwise, but Vespucci wasn't with Columbus.  He
> sailed 5 years later,(and 
> many history books have argued whether he did that
> or not!) 
>  
> 
> Moody again: 
> >>but where, when and how was "well-temperament"
> taught and by
> 
> whom?   Hipkins makes no mention of it, nor does
> Ellis, or Montal,
> 
> or Mersenne.  Where actually in the historical
> record are these
> 
> "wells" mentioned?
> 
>     Thomas Young presented his to the Royal Society
> in 1799,  Werckmeister's 
> writings have been referred to for centuries, and
> Kirnberger waged a pretty 
> solid war with his.  Jorgensen lists a lot of this. 
> What is more important, 
> to me, is that ET was discussed, at length, prior to
> 1850, and it mostly 
> seems like it was absent. 
> 
> According to Jorgensen (Tuning, pg. 455) 
>      George Grahame wrote in the Encyclopedia
> Britannica of 1842 that "The 
> unequal temperament is that usually adopted". 
> 
>     Joseph Loehr, writing in 1836, says" "There
> never was a man capable of 
> tuning by ear a pianoforte or organ so as not to
> leave some inequality of 
> temperament".  
> and: 
>     " Before Mr. Scheibler's invention(the set of 12
> tuning forks), no such 
> means existed by which even a tolerable equality of
> temperament could be 
> obtained.  In theory, and upon paper, the requisites
> of such a temperament 
> were indeed known long ago:  the precise number of
> vibrations for each 
> semitone had been correctly calculated, and the
> necessary deviations from the 
> mathematical scale pointed out.  But when it came to
> practice, when a musical 
> instrument had actualy to be tuned, then all the
> calculations of the 
> theorists proved so much worthless rubbish, because
> practice knew of no other 
> means or criterion to regulate the pitch of the
> different sounds and their 
> ratios to each other, than the ear. snip<> "The
> perfection of intonation(ET) 
> is such as cannot be obtained by the finest musical
> ear".  
> 
> Jorgensen also quotes Ellis writing in 1864 
>      "On the pianoforte the Hemitonic system is
> universally adopted in 
> intention.  It is, however, so difficult to realize
> by the ordinary methods 
> of tuning that "equal temperament" has probably
> never been attained in this 
> country, with any approach to mathematical
> precision." 
>     Fast forward to 1876 and we have Robert
> Bosanquet, a fellow of St. John's 
> College in Oxford,(can we accept that he knew of
> what he spoke??) saying, 
> "There are few tuners that can produce a tolerable
> equal temperament".  
>    In 1880 we have A.J. Ellis writing that "Equal
> temperament is that which 
> is usually aimed at, though seldom really obtained".
>  
>     So,  what was in use in the mid 1800's?  We have
> some documentation here 
> that says ET wasn't.  If not that, then what?  AT
> best, it seems that ET was 
> a theoretical ideal that was being pursued by
> tuners, but according to some 
> very learned observers of the century, was not being
> actually produced.  If 
> this is so, then the musicians of the time were not
> writing under the 
> influence of equality, but rather, the historical
> bias that had existed on 
> keyboards since their invention.  It is not
> coincidence that virtually all of 
> the deviations found in the Broadwood survey shared
> similar directions.  That 
> is certainly evidence of the well-tempered bias.    
> 
>    The nomenclature of the time is not ours today. 
> According to Jorgensen, 
> "Well-Temperament" was not a term used while these
> tunings were in vogue.  
> The same goes for "Meantone",  a term that arose
> long after the tuning to 
> which it referred was out of fashion. It is not
> illogical that what we call a 
> well-temperament today was viewed as "equal" in
> contrast to the "keyboard 
> tuning"(meantone) that proceeded it. 
>     In light of the number of authors of the time
> specifically stating that 
> ET wasn't being produced, it seems illogical to
> claim it was widespread 
> because it was simply known of, or that some
> theorists proposed it. The 
> concept of a perfect circle is simple, does that
> make it possible for a 
> person to draw one freehand?  I don't think so, a
> tool must be used.  The 
> concept of ET is simple, but can you tune one
> without the techniques 
> published in the the mid to late 1800's?  I don't
> think so.  It is for that 
> reason that I cannot accept that composers in 1800
> had the pan-tonal nature 
> of ET in mind when they chose the keys that they
> did.(and once again, the 
> choice of keys used during this period in keyboard
> music certainly seems to 
> indicate that not all keys were the same.....)
> 
> Now, to today.......
>    
> 
> > >>Consider how it {well-temperament} is proposed
> to be
> 
> > tuned-------by machine.
> 
>    Actually, Owen J. led the charge into the earlier
> tunings with his 
> booklet, "How to tune the historical temperaments by
> ear". (Barbour hadn't 
> really made it very accessible).   It had little
> effect on the trade, but in 
> 1993, with his publication of "Tuning" with its
> offsets,  coinciding with Al 
> Sanderson's programmable SAT, we begin to see a
> rapid rise in interest.  
> Today, as always, tuners are making use of the
> latest technology to progress 
> beyond the normal procedures.  It is slow,yes, but
> not nearly as slowly as it 
> appears instrument builders and musicians of the
> 18th and 19th century were 
> to move away from a tonally based temperament. 
>  
> 
> >>    When you say   "the aural tradition has taken
> the biggest hit
> 
> in the history of tuning.." are you are gloating or
> lamenting?
> 
> Neither,  an observation need not carry a value
> judgement.  The influence of 
> the machines on the general quality of tuning today
> is obvious.   Perhaps a 
> very small percentage of tuners can match or surpass
> the machines results,but 
> on full sized pianos with good scales, it is very
> rare. 
>  
> >>Is there no interest in how tuners such as Bill
> Garlich or Franz Mohr, or 
> the
> 
> tuners in London, New York, Berlin
> 
> Moscow, Paris or where ever tuning is done by ear,
> is there no
> 
> interest in how they were  trained, how they tune
> and how they are
> 
> 
=== message truncated ===


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