Fw: D hammers (cut-off)

antares@euronet.nl antares@euronet.nl
Sat, 3 May 2003 15:20:38 +0200


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Sorry Ron,

I was in Paris for some time and could not properly react.
I think your cut off bar ideas are very interesting and of course I=20
would love to hear the differences between this and that instrument.
Someday I hope to visit you and be able to listen to your instruments.
btw..beautiful picture of the rims. How do you do that? (I am not a=20
real computer guy as you understand)

Freindly greetings,

Andr=E9


On vrijdag, apr 25, 2003, at 22:43 Europe/Amsterdam, Ron Overs wrote:

> At 11:40 AM +0200 26/4/03, antares@euronet.nl wrote:
>
> I have been in this business for some time and I have never - really -=20=

> understood the workings of the cut off bar.
>
>
> Ideally, a piano should (all other things being equal) produce a=20
> superior tone if the long bridge is positioned at the center of the=20
> sound board. Of course, it is impossible to arrange for the bridge to=20=

> be located perfectly thus, but an appropriately designed cut-off will=20=

> help it follow this idealised situation more faithfully.
>
> While it is possible to produce an instrument with a most satisfactory=20=

> tone, which nonetheless does not conform to this so-called 'ideal' of=20=

> piano making, such an instrument may still have sounded a little=20
> cleaner and more controlled if it had a cut-off, allowing the long=20
> bridge to be more favorably positioned.
>
> Take a look at the following jpeg outline of a concert grand which I=20=

> am designing at present.
>
<image.tiff>
> For those who's email programme can't display the above image, I've=20
> uploaded it to;
> http://overspianos.com.au/newslt.dec.02.jpg
> (the image will be available for a couple of days. Please view it with=20=

> your web browser). BTW, for those who were posting about log-style=20
> scales, the above long bridge conforms to a log-style design.
>
> Just digressing for a moment - that grand piano that you mentioned=20
> recently Bob I (when I was deeply immersed in sound-board-rib land) is=20=

> crying out for a log-style scale down to D30, then a tenor with=20
> covered bichords from C#29 down to F21 (a silly place to cross in a=20
> 185 cm piano), with the complete removal of that suspended bass=20
> bridge. If the front duplexes are anything like the Hamburg=20
> alternative they will be screamingly noisy - definitely a de-tune=20
> required here - this means you get to play with your angle grinder.=20
> I've had local enquiries for rebuilding of this model which I've=20
> turned down on account of the unbelievable number of design problems=20=

> which the instrument presents - its just too hard to make a buck with=20=

> all the changes that are required. I've rebuilt three of them, and now=20=

> would prefer to 'run for cover'. I can't understand how these builders=20=

> persist with that model and continue to take themselves seriously.=20
> Nevertherless, it is possible to make it into something, as long as=20
> your prepared to ditch practically everything OEM.
>
> (and now its back to the subject at hand, which doesn't have a lot to=20=

> do with hammers or rebuilding as such)
> The RH piano image illustrates a case fitted with a typical small=20
> angled cut-off, which achieves little more than to provide a=20
> talking-point for the salesman's further boredom of the punters. The=20=

> LH image shows just how an effective cut-off design can disable the=20
> unwanted distortion-promoting bass corner of the sound board. Corners=20=

> make very poor shapes from an acoustical perspective. The curved=20
> cut-off will do much to eliminate the unwanted bass corner and to=20
> allow for the otherwise overly-long ribs, which span the board to the=20=

> bass corner, to be shortened. Big sound boards do not necessarily=20
> produce big tone. The piano with the biggest sound board on the planet=20=

> has a serious dynamic problem which is well known to students of piano=20=

> design.
>
> Our future production pianos will not only have a curved laminated=20
> cut-off, but the bass corner area behind the cut-off will be filled=20
> with a structural plywood fill-in, which will be veneered with the=20
> same veneer as the inner surface of the outer rim. I can't see the=20
> sense in wasting valuable belly wood, for the sole purpose of blocking=20=

> an unwanted hole. Much better to use 19 mm ply in its place, which=20
> will further enhance the lateral rigidity of the cut-off system. The=20=

> saving in belly wood can be considerable in the case of a concert=20
> piano such as the one illustrated above. Also notice that the sound=20
> board with the real cut-off resembles a 'bent tear-drop' shape. This=20=

> board will conform to that other ideal of a reducing sound board area=20=

> from the bass to the high treble.
>
> =A0What I do remember however is the older Uebel & Lechleiter uprights=20=

> without cut off bar, that sounded impressively nice, with the emphasis=20=

> on mellowness and lower partial characteristics.
>
>
> The old Ubels were indeed a fine sounding instrument, and proof that=20=

> it is possible to build a nice sounding piano that is a bit 'rough at=20=

> the edges'. They even had the good sense to place the break at=20
> D30/D#31, which was reasonably forward thinking for 1900. Some of the=20=

> contemporary commercial manufacturers might well benefit from looking=20=

> over a Ubel and pondering over these musically satisfying but=20
> economical creations. You never know, the production of a pleasant=20
> sounding cheaper instrument might even prove to be a new talking point=20=

> on the sales floor, or am I being a bit old fashioned?
>
> Ron O.
>
> Now Andr=E9, I've had enough of this - thanks anyhow! Its 2.40 am here=20=

> in Sydney, so I'm going to get horizontal for a while.
>
> --
>
> _______________________
>
> OVERS PIANOS - SYDNEY
> Grand Piano Manufacturers
>
> Web: http://overspianos.com.au
> mailto:info@overspianos.com.au
> _______________________
>


A. Oorebeek,
The Netherlands

see my website at : www.concertpianoservice.nl

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