Thank you Isaac, that was a brilliant comment. You have deserved a very nice bottle of very good wine. Antares On vrijdag, mei 9, 2003, at 22:14 Europe/Amsterdam, Isaac OLEG wrote: > adding a few comments >> I have written quite a lot about Wurzen felt on this list >> (and other e-mail places) but usually there is hardly any > response, >> despite the importance of this matter. Only a few techs have > responded >> at all and I suspect it has to do with the difference in voicing > between >> America and Europe and the use of hammer dopes in the USA. >> In Europe it is not a common practice to use 'soft' hammers >> and then dope them with a hardener. > > We even try to avoid the refelting of hammers because use of dope is > then sometime unavoidable. > >> I personally prefer a hammer with as little hammer dope as >> possible. >> Why? because hammer dopes kill the natural elasticity in >> the fibers, thereby definitely changing certain 'lively' aspects in > a tone. > > If we look at the ESTONIAN piano site, they produced a machine to test > the springiness response of the hammers,. see > http://www.cs.ioc.ee/%7Estulov/music.htm > > where it is said : "A piano hammer is a rather complicated object. > First, relationships of dynamic force versus hammer deformation show > the significant influence of hysteresys, i.e. the loading and > unloading of the hammer are not alike. Furthermore, the > force-compression relationships of the hammer are essentially > nonlinear, and the slope of the dynamic force-compression curve is > strongly dependent on the hammer velocity." > > A model of the hammer that takes into account all the dynamical > features of the hammer was derived in the paper: A. Stulov, > "Hysteretic model of the grand piano hammer felt", J. Acoust. Soc. Am. > v. 97 (4), 2577- 2585, 1995. > According to this model the piano hammer possesses history-dependent > properties or just, in other words, is made of the material with > memory. In this case two additional hereditary parameters are involved > to describe the hysteretic behavior of the hammer. " > > They produce a nice setup shown on the site that allows to test the > characteristics of hammers - > > I don't pretend understanding clearly what is expressed there, but the > fact that the piano hammer felt is remembering the way it was treated > (from the start probably) and react accordingly all the time it is > used is well adding a bit of water to what says Andre about the > "definitive" first voicing. > > Nowadays some of these characteristics are lost when lacquering is due > for a reason or another, in many factories lacquering a serial of > hammers mean calling the Renner factory an ask what the hell is going > there ! > >> In the past all the hammers of the great European builders >> were covered with a felt that was lively, with very elastic fibers, > but >> yet firm and with a very satisfying tone. On some older untouched > Steinways, >> Bechsteins, Schiedmayers, Blüthners and Bösendorfers we may >> still find this marvelous Wurzen felt. > > The name of the felt was WEICKERT in this time (name of the factory) > it is also seen on old Pleyels, Gaveau or such French pianos, usually > a stamp on the first bass hammer side. > from the http://www.filzfabrik-wurzen.de/eng.htm<<The company was > founded in 1783 under the name J.D. Weickert. Later, the company > became world famous for its legendary piano felts under the name of > J.D. Weickert Pianoforte Felt Factory. Today, the company is the > oldest existing felt factory in the world. After Germany reunification > in 1989, the company was renamed Felt Factory of Wurzen Ltd. (FFW) and > re-privatized by Klaus Brand in 1991 with a firm commitment to its > long standing tradition and future. > > >> It is not too hard and not too soft and thus requires both some >> needling and hardener in the extreme treble and bass. >> If I understand it well, Americans just work the other way >> around : a very soft hammer, to be hardened to the right level of >> crispness and hardness with 'a' hammer hardener. >> I honestly think that both the Americans and the Europeans seek the >> same kind of tone but in a different way as they both have >> different traditions and backgrounds. > > I believe a little differently that because of our slightly different > musical culture and environment the tone we are used to is a bit > different - may be we could try to say that we aim in Europe for a > tone that is supposed to be build by the pianist (and the tuner !) > while another approach is to give a ready to use tone, that can be > played with more or less volume, but where the most of the coloration > is given by the strings/soundboard, the hammers having lesser a role > in the story. > I've heard that a very good concert piano played by a brutal pianist > can be awful to the point I wandered if the piano was properly tuned, > while after that played by a sensible and experienced artist it singed > and was mellow. > >> Anyway, Abel hammers are louder because the felt is much >> more dense and Abel does not share the preferences Renner customers > have, >> whereas the Wurzen hammers produced by Renner are more open > structured >> and require less needling. The sound between the hammers produced > by these >> factories is completely different. > > I really find not much "body" in the tone provided, but they have a > brilliant quality that can pleases some who like brilliance I just > noticed that the density is not easy to turn in mellowness or tone > power. I've heard they aim for kind of "pre voiced" hammers, not sure > I understand ... > >> I have my own rather strong opinion but I certainly wish to >> respect the preference of people who have a different opinion. >> There are many different wines so to speak, but I was just >> wondering why so few technicians react to this issue as it actually > one of the >> very aspects of our trade..... > > I too have much respect for any way some can like the tone he likes, I > just wish to have more material to listen, so I could compare and have > a better idea on what is where. > > I've listened to a Chickering grand (in a poor state) lately, and it > certainly could have been a very musical instrument, probably more > near of the Viennese tone than the German one way less of a percussive > instrument than many. > > I suspect that the treatment of the attack and the percussive part of > the tone is what differ mostly in the way we listen and appreciate the > tone of the instruments. Experiences have shown that if we listen to > piano tone without this attack they hardly are recognized by the > listeners. > I suspect also that non hardened hammers, softer or harder, are more > prone to give more coloration than lacquered ones, probably because of > more variation in the excitation they can provide to the acoustic > system (strings/board/rim/etc) > > Pfff..... > > > With much respect and best wishes to all colleagues. > > Isaac OLEG > > > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > Antares, The Netherlands see my website at : www.concertpianoservice.nl
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