Envelope pushers(jazzers)/Liszt(was Ahmad Jamal)

[Classic Touch Ent]

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Hi Sarah!

On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 01:22 AM, Sarah Fox wrote:

> Hi again, Rich,
> =A0
> Just a quick note before I disappear for a couple of days.=A0 (I'll be=20=

> out sailing :-)
>
> Do you mean in the composer, improviser or performer sense or all=20
> three? Are we talking composition, technique, 'sound' sculpture,=20
> voicing? all of them?The answers (observations, extrapolations, wags)=20=

> could probably fill a book or two, hotly debated by all. Perhaps I'm=20=

> misunderstanding the focus of the question, but it just seems there=20
> are so many variables many of which point in the 'which comes first,=20=

> the chicken or the egg?' direction.
> =A0
> I suppose I mean "all three" Liszts.=A0 I'm thinking particularly of =
the=20
> limitations Liszt=A0experienced from=A0the slower repetition rates of=20=

> earlier actions.=A0=A0I understand he hungered for a faster, more =
nimble=20
> action, and he considered the modern repetition arm=A0a godsend.=A0 It=20=

> opened up many more possibilities to him both in composition and=20
> performance.

Hi Sarah,

AH! In the case of Liszt/pianos/rep.rates I'd debate this. I don't know=20=

specifically what you mean by 'modern repetition arm', but considering=20=

the end of his concert career (~1850) my recollection is that he played=20=

nothing like a modern grand action. The Erards of his day were=20
'quicker' than our 'modern' grand action. I think the modern grand is=20
in large part due to market conditions (promoters demand bigger halls=20
with more seats to accommodate more( paying) folks anxious to hear/see=20=

the masters/ requiring instruments with much bigger volume/ much more=20
percussive potential than the fortepiano). However, once the modern=20
grand is created we see composers and performers exploiting its=20
percussive potential. Don't know whether that's because of fortepiano=20
limitation or palette/style preference.
      By following the Liszt, A. Rubinstein, Josef Hofmann legacy we=20
arrive at proteges (such as William Harms and Shura Cherkasky) carrying=20=

on in the 'bel canto' style of performing. They were focused (just my=20
opinion/perception) on exploiting both ends of  the dynamic range of=20
the instrument with a self imposed limitation at the gate of=20
percussiveness.

My take on Liszt aside, my original questions [re: Do you mean in the=20
composer, improviser or performer sense or all three?
  Are we talking composition, technique, 'sound' sculpture, voicing? all=20=

of them?] were intended to focus on envelope pushing in general=20
(composition and performance) and its relation to limitation in=20
whatever form it takes (is the limitation from within or without).
> =A0
> What they are able to write/perform depends very much on the=20
> technology beneath their fingertips.=A0
>
> I'm sure that this is true much of the time, but some composers
(this should have said composers/performers)
>  seem to conjure sounds, and textures, articulations, voicings,=20
> temperaments without regard to whether or not the instruments,=20
> technology, or performers are capable of producing it. Sort of 'I have=20=

> this idea ( by the way the system for notating this hasn't been=20
> created yet) and I'll describe it as best I can: can you figure out a=20=

> way to make it happen?'
> =A0
> Ah, but in the end,=A0the composer must make the music accommodate the=20=

> technical=A0limitations of the instrumentation, whatever they may be.=A0=
 I=20
> don't think I've ever heard of a composer composing for an=20
> instrument=A0yet to be created, although it almost wouldn't surprise =
me=20
> -- and I'd almost understand.=A0 The weirdest thing I ever did was to=20=

> write a piece that incorporated=A0a bobbling hammer.=A0 Of course it =
could=20
> only=A0be played on *that* piano!
Perhaps this is a matter of semantics mostly born of my decision to=20
make a reply at 1:30 AM when I should have gone to bed.

Best,

Rich Olmsted  (sans vichyssoise d'alphabet)

PS.  'IN' the Chesapeake ?!?!? If it was someone else I would assume a=20=

typo...so I'm asking.
> =A0
> Well, gotta go!=A0 I have a very long day tomorrow, and we'll be up=20
> early to catch the tide.
> =A0
> Peace,
> Sarah Diane Fox, Ph.D., NPT, NPR, NRP, ABCDEFG
> Soon to be in the Chesapeake=A0
>
> =A0
>

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