Hello Isaac You have "hit the nail on the head". During the Opera Season here I have to be careful not to overbook my private clients for, more often as not, the Opera suddenly needs me for a rehearsal tuning. A Harpsichord in a rehearsal stage or a piano in the green room or wherever. I look back at my diaries with total horror now, for I used to tune anything between 8 or 10 pianos a day for five days a week and sometimes, in schools, 14 pianos a day - if I can get at them and the venue is unlocked! Now I am semi-retired. Taking it a bit easier. Able to chat on this site and exchange views and opinions. That's nice. My last tuning for this season is next Friday. Idomeneo - a Harpsichord. Then I and my little family are going to our holiday house on the North Norfolk coast for a week. There I have a little Yamaha upright which is sadly out of tune when we arrive. But I do nothing to it. Do you know what? This little piano gets used to our being there and, as the temperature rises, it tunes itself! The last thing I did to my model A (1914) was to change the rollers (knuckles to US!) they were thoriginal ones and sadly mishaped. I got a set of Helmut Abel's 10mm "Hammerrollen" and put them on. Now the piano feels very good. I have been struggling with a Grotrian-Steinweg 225 yesterday. The key-dip had gone down to 9mm so I had to remove the action and put in 0.3mm punchings to every key. This restored it to its former glory (after the essential regulation of drop and letoff) Interestingly this piano is 1991 vintage and when delivered the hammer rise was horrifically fast. I commented on this at the time. Now, 12 years later, many of the hammers have NO hammer rise and I have had to do much strengthening of the double winged jack springs. This instrument has no spring assist, though there is the provision for the spring - you know, the two perforated ears on the check end of the lever (whippen to US!) so the playing weight is about 50 - 52 gms. Following all these adjustments I am very keen to hear what the professional pianists say. Up until now the piano had been considered "unresponsive".... We shall see. I guess you have picked up my "Quadrant System" by now? If not I'll post it again for your perusal and comment. Kindest regards Michael G (UK- across the Channel) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Isaac sur Noos" <oleg-i@noos.fr> To: "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 10:53 PM Subject: RE: Partials change with tension?...was Verituner Spinner > Hello Michael, > > I've done 4 years working for Steinway (concert service) in Paris, I > liked but finally hate these stressful situations ! > > Well, in fact I certainly could be yet working in that service, but I > wanted to have more time for repairs and my own customers, (I have a > good workshop with some space and tools) so we finally separate. I > was receiving a fax on wednesday, to get the planning of the next > week, and I had hard times to find my own organisation at the same > time. > > But I like a lot indeed the concert work, just that we rarely have > time to do the best (or even the minimum). > EDT are good helps in some cases, I remember bringing to 442 , with > earplugs, 2 Steinways D that where at 440 each to begin with, and > during that time the crew where mounting the satnds for a full choir > of 200 people (hammering on tubes, very noisy) > > I used RCT for that (Reyburn CyberTuner) and the 2 pianos wher really > "tuned" in 75 minutes, - rehearsel only, but these situations where > not so rare, some like it, some get tired of it after some time. > > I used a TLA CT5 for some time, like you rarely I could agree with the > first octave provided (A3-A4 or F3 F4) the tuning curves provided are > very flat in the middle, I like you discovered the partial theory, > did not work on that when learning the trade. Nice to know the > difference between a minor 3d/maj six and a M3d 10th test, or the > difference in the 2 tests for the fiths. > > But indeed one can get overlooked in that partial theory, and finally > forget how to listen to the piano tone itself. > > I have a Verituner for 2 years, this is the machine that provide you > the basis for a "concert tuning" on any piano, spinet or concert, > because the partial series are taken in account very fully and for the > whole instrument. > > You finally have a very clear ringing piano, but the tuners ears are > more than never necessary of course, or all this perfection can sound > ... too perfect. > Many VT users are using an alternate temperament, I have analysed the > temperament of the 5 tuners of the Paris S&S concert service, and > indeed no one is providing a so called perfect temperament, even if > afterthat the fast beating intervals progression is smoothed. > > That is indeed a coloration question, I like myself to use a > temperament with differnces of less than 1 ct in fiths, for color. > > But the use of the EDT and this habit makes me lazy to "lay the > bearing " totally, I produce a temperament, but not as checked as I > could most often, because I rely much on the machine, which > unfortunately is always right (almost). Then while tuning I use "tonal > checks" minor major chords in relation with notes 2 octaves higher, so > this is corrected as I go. > > What is wonderful with this EDT, if you know how to put a fast tuning > on a piano, is that you have there an instrument tuned like concert > pianos, so when you shut the box and begin to brush your tuning, > things are really in place. > > You may be should consider asking for a VT for a test (for fun) , I > believe it is possible to have one, try to join Andre Oorebeck in > Holland, which is selling these units. He is a good friend and a nice > guy. > > But indeed if you like to work that fast (1 hr tuning in customer's > home) may be you like also to earn well ( I too !) and you will find > that the use of the machine slow the things down for the first tuning, > because the listening and analysis of the notes of the piano is always > taking some time, even if it is done while you tune (ideally when you > do the first pass). > > I am too much exhausted if I tune 5 or 6 pianos a day, so I specialize > more in fine regulation/voicing, and repair in my workshop. I like to > tune and I believe I am not that bad (Musicians tell me I install a > "German tone" on the pianos) but I am probably too picky, and spend > always some time in regulation, hammer mating, expecting the piano to > have a new touch and feel after I finish - am I presomptuous ;>) > BTW I have "perfect ear" mean I can retune the notes/zone that hurt > very fast and fix a little ill tuning in 10 minutes if I've heard the > piano played. > > But I hardly organise myself for these rush jobs actually, unless for > economic reasons (I force myself a bit for that, school tunings,even > floor tunings, because I know I have to work this ability or I will > loose it). > > > Greetings , you seem to be typing as fast as me I guess ! (and are > very prolific ) > > And no, not at all advertising for the VT, don't misunderstand me > please. Only if you like to make yourself a little gift ! > > With kind regards. > > > Isaac OLEG > > Entretien et réparation de pianos. > > PianoTech > 17 rue de Choisy > 94400 VITRY sur SEINE > FRANCE > tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98 > fax : 033 01 47 18 06 90 > cell: 06 60 42 58 77 > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Michael Gamble [mailto:michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk] > > Envoyé : samedi 18 octobre 2003 22:08 > > À : oleg-i@noos.fr > > Objet : Re: Partials change with tension?...was Verituner Spinner > > > > > > Hello Isaac OLEG > > You say you are not sure if you follow my "Quadrant > > System"? In the post I > > sent you I didn't describe it as fully as I did earlier > > this week in another > > post. I'll see if I can find that post and forward it to > > you on this site. > > Thanks for your interest. > > I have been working with Emanuelle Haim this evening - > > she's conducting from > > a Harpsichord in a Handel Opera "Theodora" There are two > > Harpsichords in the > > Pit and I only have 15 minutes in the second interval to > > tune them. Better > > in the first interval - I get 20 minutes then! Quite > > stressful as the > > audience come in and a member of the audience starts > > chatting to the Theorbo > > player over my shoulder... Then a plectrum is found to be > > broken.... and one > > note doesn't work.... quick! out with the tools and spare > > plectra.. tease > > the broken one out and replace it with a new one... try it in the > > Harpsichord... trim it to length... voice it to not be so > > strident... the > > audience is quieting down and Emanuelle is walking into the > > Pit... put the > > Harpsichord back together again ... gather my tools... get out!! > > Regards > > Michael G (UK - over the channel) > > > > > > > >
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