This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Hi Don et al., What you write is of course true. A cent is a cent is a cent -- same = difference in pitch, no matter whether treble, tenor, or bass. I wonder = if this isn't one point in favor of electronic tuning. After all, aural = tuning relies on counting beats, and beat rate would vary with overall = pitch. However, beats are irrelevant to electronic tuning. I can't = really speak from experience, as I only tune electronically. Any = thoughts from you aural tuners? Peace, Sarah ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Don Gilmore=20 To: Pianotech=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:21 AM Subject: Re: Beats vs cycles vs cents Sure you do, Ric. Cents are what it's all about. Cents ARE what you = perceive in pitch. Being off 100 cents takes you to the next note. 50 = cents takes you half way there, no matter what note you're on. Ten = cents out of tune sounds like ten cents out of tune, no matter what your = beat frequency is. As you said, there are minor discrepancies when = tuning, but you are pedantically missing the point. =20 Using beats to tune a string is just a convenient crutch. It wouldn't = do you much good when tuning a solo clarinet, would it? To tune an A0 = (27.5 Hz) to a beat frequency of one cycle per second in comparison to = another A0 string would require it to be at 27.5 + 1 =3D 28.5 Hz. This = is 62 cents sharp! That's wayyyyy off. It's closer to Bb! And 62 = cents sharp sounds just as bad for A0 as it would for C7, or A-440, or = any other note. =20 For comparison, a beat frequency of 1 Hz for C7 only means it's less = than half a cent off! Beats are a phenomenon related to the *difference* in frequency = (subtraction); cents are a phenomenon related to the *ratio* of = frequencies (division), which is what music itself is based on. Sure, = you can hear beats, but as you can see it really has no relationship to = what you hear pitch-wise at all. Don A. Gilmore Mechanical Engineer Kansas City=20 > I really have to take issue with this. No one <<percieves>> cents at = > all. Our perceptions of out of tuneness have far more to do with = how=20 > "clean" any given interval relationship sounds, or how close any=20 > interval is to what we expect of it. This is exactly beat related.=20 > Cents is an idealization, a mathmatical representation or modeling = of=20 > musical pitch. There is no musical way of defining <<in tuneness>> = based=20 > on cents to begin with. Only close approximations. Beats are used = both=20 > individually and whollistically to create a musical effect... the = very=20 > best tuners know exactly what kind of vibrational effects they want = a=20 > piano to send out through the air for each interval and are very = good at=20 > achieving these. Many tuners I know speak of a the overall <<tone>> = of a=20 > tuning.... in kind of voicing sense. <<Voicing>> through tuning is a = > mulitpartial prospect to begin with, which removes it from a simple=20 > cents perspective from the get go. >=20 > 100 cents is not always a half step in real piano frequencies.... it = is=20 > at best only a half step for one partial at a time. Pitch = perception is=20 > a conglomerate of all partials, their relative loudness, and a good = deal=20 > more. >=20 > Cheers > RicB > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/80/f1/b6/ac/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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