---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment OK you guys and gals, Let me first tell you that, from the beginning, there were techs who=20 said that an improvement of tone was not possible "because the hammer=20 hits the string first", and that they could not understand how it is=20 possible that a firmer punching would have this result at all. They are right in assuming that, if the hammer hits the string first,=20 an improvement of tone is not possible. If the hammer hits the string,=20= an improvement of tone, caused by this punching, is not possible. They are however wrong, in believing that the hammer hits the string=20 first, although it depends on how you strike that key : you can play a=20= note without hitting the bottom, the key frame, so it depends on how=20 you play that key. If you play that key in a, what we call 'normal' way, the key will hit=20= the bottom first followed by the hammer hitting the string. I think that I may say here that it should be clear, after all my=20 contributions to this list, that I am not a bs'er , a fraud, or a fake=20= story teller. These front punchings make all the difference in regard to how a piano=20= feels and sounds and they have actually changed and enriched my=20 concepts of 'the making of tone'. It has however become clear that, in=20= order to get a distinguishable result from these punchings, the=20 instrument has to meet certain conditions and I shall repeat what I=20 wrote about those conditions yesterday : quote: One thing I have learned about this new Wurzen punching, is, that if an=20= instrument has not been regulated the right way, or when an instrument=20= has very loud hammers, you will not hear any difference. You will hear a difference though when the instrument has been=20 regulated the right way, and when the hammers have a more or less=20 'normal' voicing, i.e. not really too loud, and not really too soft. There is of course a wide scale between very soft and very loud, but=20 then..... those two are extremes. The influence of the new tapered Wurzen punching is subtle, and can=20 only be heard on an instrument which has been regulated and voiced=20 according to 'normal' professional standards. The feel/touch of the new punching on the other hand, is an other case=20= : 'any' regulation becomes more clear and more defined when you install=20= these punchings. How can it not be the case? It is a more dense material with a very satisfying elasticity which=20 Vladan Temer described so clearly before when he tested several kinds=20 of punchings. That means that a key dip of 10 mm is a key dip of 10 mm. No more, and no less. That in itself makes all the difference. unquote. It also becomes clear that, although I have written about this issue=20 quite a number of times, the principle of why a firmer punching has=20 such an influence is not fully understood by some technicians. For those who do not fully understand this, I will have to repeat=20 myself again (and I apologize for those who know about it already) : Look at the key as if it were a sea saw with two little children on it. Normally speaking, when the sea saw comes down, it bumps into the=20 ground a bit, but, in order to prevent the children from getting hurt,=20= a rubber tyre is put on the ground on both ends to soften the shock. Nevertheless, when it goes a little rough, the child on the high end of=20= the sea saw has to hold the handle tightly, so that it will not fly off=20= when the sea saw hits the ground a little hard. Now we take away the rubber tires... The sea saw will really bang hard into the firm underground, and the=20 bigger shock, caused by it, is transferred immediately to the high end=20= of the sea saw. The child sitting on the high end may get airborne, handle or no handle. This transfer of energy is easy to understand and it proves how the=20 shock of a key hitting firmer 'ground' causes a more 'defined' touch,=20 and a louder, and sometimes clearer, tone. The new Wurzen punching feels more firm than most other punching, but=20 it is not too firm. When we compare it with another punching (for instance under the next=20 key), we notice immediately that the softer punching feels more spongy=20= and that after touch is less precise. The firmer Wurzen punching feels a little more firm, makes it possible=20= to regulate a very precise after touch, and hence causes a stronger=20 transfer of energy because of the more efficient regulation. On top of that, the extra firmness also causes a stronger reaction=20 straight to the hammer and we can instantly hear the difference between=20= the key with the softer punching. Sometimes it even seems a little=20 dull, and most pianists get very excited and immediately want the new=20= stuff (; >)) I have showed and explained this phenomenon to many people here, and I=20= always let them memorize touch and sound first, before inserting a=20 Wurzen sample under the very same key. I then let them try it out for themselves, so that I am not able to=20 suggest anything to them. In all these cases, the reaction was one of disbelieve and sometimes=20 great surprise, and I always urge them to repeat the procedure over and=20= over again so that they are absolutely convinced that it is not a hoax. So again, if any of you can not tell the difference, it maybe due to : A badly regulated instrument : the malfunctioning action makes it=20 impossible to distinguish any difference. A badly voiced instrument : the too soft or too hard hammers make it=20 impossible to distinguish any difference. A front punching which is just as firm as the Wurzen replacement. Your maybe lost your finest sense of touch and maybe also your finest=20 sense of hearing. I hope the above helps to make why this new punching is a truly great=20 improvement. friendly greetings from Andr=E9 Oorebeek www.concertpianoservice.nl "Where music is no harm can be" On 2-apr-05, at 6:59, jason kanter wrote: > I'd like to hazard a guess about how these punchings are able to=20 > affect tone. > =A0 > Firstly let's admit the logical problem. If you look at the mechanical=20= > model,=A0all the motion=A0that contributes to the hammer contacting = the=20 > string occurs before the key bottoms out on the punching. So,=20 > theoretically, it is difficult to account for Andre's claims about=20 > this improved tone. We can admit logically that the *feel* of the=20 > action may be quite different because of the punching, because the=20 > experience of hitting bottom is such a great portion of the artist's=20= > experience. OK. But the *tone*? Is this magical thinking? Or may there=20= > be a more subtle explanation that satisfies logic? > =A0 > The truth, I suspect, is in the marvelous nervous structure leading to=20= > the artist's fingertips. The regulation of aftertouch is, let's say,=20= > 10x more precise with the antares punching than with a too-soft=20 > punching. I suspect that the fingers, finding a much more precise=20 > bottom, are able to deliver that much more precise a blow. Having=20 > played and found this certain bottom, the *fingers* are now much more=20= > sure of how much force to use in the attack on the keys. This is what=20= > affects the tone. The artist's touch is made more effective by the=20 > clean bottom. > =A0 > Does this idea play? Or am I making a rationalization for magical=20 > thinking? > =A0 > jason > On 2-apr-05, at 12:41, Richard Brekne wrote: > > > You might also add in that for louder levels of play the key actually=20= > bottoms out before the hammer hits the string. The end point=20 > condition for key travel then becomes significant in terms of how much=20= > energy it absorbs or not. The action has a certain catapult affect=20 > here with whatever stored energy in the system wanting release as soon=20= > as possible. I wont get into whether any of that can or cant be=20 > released in time as that discussion has been backed and forthed a few=20= > times already. But I will sign under that the effect is obvious from=20= > the standpoint of what the fingers feel and ears percieve when=20 > changing the type of punchings. Also, as Andre pointed out. A well=20 > regulated instrument is necessary to get this far in the first place. =20= > An action that is not well regulated disperses much of the energy=20 > around in various forms of waste to begin with yes... ? > > > Cheers > RicB > > Hi Jason. > > I agree with your thoughts about the importance on the sound of the =3D > pianist's feel at the fingertips. > But there is another thing that is easy to experiment : the influence=20= > of =3D > the thump of the key landing on the keyframe on the final sound of the=20= > =3D > note being played. More than that, not only the sound of the very=20 > thump =3D > here mentionned, but also the way this impulsion feeds back to all the=20= > =3D > strings via the keybed, the rim, the soundboard and the bridge, and =3D > gives extra energy to the vibration of the string and the whole=20 > acoustic =3D > machine, and mixes up with the thump of the hammer and hammer shank at=20= > =3D > hammer-string contact time. You can easily isolate that thump by =3D > removing a hammer from the hammer rail and playing the corresponding =3D= > note (with the action in the piano) : the key knocking sound you hear = =3D > (emphasized very much if you depress the demper pedal) is really part=20= > of =3D > the overall sound. Now, change the punching, the sound will change =3D > accordingly. What is magic is how the final acoustic result of some =3D= > blends of impulsions make you feel good, while other (only slightly =3D > different) blends, not so. > What I found great at Andr=3DE9's punchings is that they have exactly=20= > the =3D > right firmness : harder ones tend to make a disagreable thump (tac tac=20= > =3D > tac) in the trebble, and softer ones won't give you the nice end of=20 > dip =3D > feeling (and regulation), and will absorb more of the energy of the=20 > key =3D > thump. > > Best regards. > > St=3DE9phane Collin. > > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 10589 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/cb/19/d4/31/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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