Hey, Aural Gurus ...

[Alan Forsyth]

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Phil Bondi wrote;

> Alan, I've tuned 3 pianos since I received this 'tip' about tuning D3=20
> after A4, and yes, from my brief rookie experience with this method,=20
> this 12th may need to be less than perfect in order for it to fit.
>=20
> Subjects used:
>=20
> Boston GP 163
> S&S Upright 45
> Yamaha G1
>=20
> I had a problem with the Upright, but the other 2 were clean.


  Don't tune it a perfect 12th. Include it in your temperament as a =
12th. I was in the middle of replying to Alan Barnard's first post on =
this but I will post it here half finished as it were. Don't confuse =
Richard Brekne's  post  on P12ths with mine which was about the =
importance of D3.=20


Alan Barnard wrote;
=20
>>>>"Since most temperaments work well with about 1/2 beat narrow D4-A4 =
fifth and likewise with about a 1/2 beat wide D3-D4 octave, if you tuned =
D3 to A4 absolutely beatless (at A5) you would have two notes (in a two =
octave temperament) that were dead-on and accounting for inharminicity =
across the break in most pianos=20

Then, tuning A3 to A4, and D4 to D3 while checking the fourths and =
fifths created among those four notes you'd be pretty confident you had =
four solidly and rather easily placed notes.=20

Anything wrong with this? ">>>>

  Nothing wrong with the strategy, but I don't tune D3 to A4 beatless at =
A5. I tune them at 1 beat per second at A5 because A3 to D4 and D4 to A4 =
are 1bps. All three of the above mentioned intervals have their common =
coincident partial at A5. This is the most fundamental beat rate of =
equal temperament. It's very easy to achieve if you reference it with =
your watch.

  Now, to me at any rate, making the two 5ths intervals that you have in =
your bearing scale match up with each other will reinforce the 3rd =
partial which just happens to be the most harmonic of the partial series =
and the loudest. It's this reinforcing of the 3rd partial that makes the =
piano sing. Don't forget also that the 5th is the most common interval =
in music. Of course there may be many of you who will say I'm talking =
absolute crap.

  If the beat rate can't slow down to 1bps at A5 for the interval D3 to =
A4 without incurring a howl in the A3 to A4 octave, then you know you =
have a real lousy scale design on your hands. I have a sneaky feeling =
that this is why manufacturers tend to avoid wound strings as much as =
possible and favour the much maligned low tension alternative in the =
lower tenor. But I digress!

  When you get to the other notes in your bearing scale, treat their =
respective 5th intervals as you would when comparing 3rds i.e. a smooth =
progression. So for instance when you are tuning E3 to B4, you must =
listen to the B5 coincident partial and not the B4 fundamental. Going up =
to a higher plane as it were gives you twice the accuracy and double the =
beat rate to make it easier to make your judgement; in this case the =
beat rate will be just slightly faster than 1bps.

>>> "Now, find me a similar exercise for nailing down F3 or F4 (NOT =
estimating beat rates) and I'd be one excited camper, because after that =
a two octave temperament (C3-B4 for the RPT tuning test) would be pretty =
easy. " >>>

  Keep in mind the basic 1bps rate. Any 5th interval you tune above your =
D3 to A4 starting point will be progressively faster than 1bps listening =
at their respective 5th partial coincidents. Any 5th interval you tune =
above the D4 to A5 interval should beat progressively faster than 1bps =
listening at their respective 3rd partial conincidents. Likewise with =
the corresponding 4th intervals; your starting point is A4 to D4 which =
in equal temperament terms should beat at 1bps listening at the same A5 =
coincident partial. Any 4th intervals tuned below should have a =
progressive beat rate of slightly less than 1bps. Any 4ths you tune =
above this point should increase progressively faster than 1bps. Now =
your F's are slap bang in the middle of all this =
humdingaloo...........and the beat goes on.=20


  End of part 1. Episode 2 may follow if time allows.

  AF
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Phil Bondi" <phil@philbondi.com>
To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 4:55 AM
Subject: Re: Hey, Aural Gurus ...


>=20
>=20
>=20
>>I'm still curious about the P12th D3-A4 bit, though. Is the logic =
correct or
>>would different pianos require a, shall we say, less-than-perfect =
12th?
>> =20
>>
> Alan, I've tuned 3 pianos since I received this 'tip' about tuning D3=20
> after A4, and yes, from my brief rookie experience with this method,=20
> this 12th may need to be less than perfect in order for it to fit.
>=20
> Subjects used:
>=20
> Boston GP 163
> S&S Upright 45
> Yamaha G1
>=20
> I had a problem with the Upright, but the other 2 were clean.
>=20
> -Phil Bondi(Fl)
>=20
>=20
>
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