---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On 7-mei-05, at 23:00, Donald Mannino wrote: > At 06:49 AM 5/7/2005, you wrote: > >> I am of quite a different opinion. >> The conical punching we are very happy to promote, is NOT made of=20 >> pressed felt, but purely 'felted' felt made in the Wurzen factory. > > Andre, > > Whether technically correct terminology, what Mr. Stanwood was=20 > referring to was the contrasting properties of pressed or felted wool=20= > as opposed to woven and felted wool, as is commonly used for front=20 > punchings and back key rails.=A0 Mr. Stanwood has not questioned the=20= > tonal issue, nor do I - I am waiting to do that myself.=A0 What he is=20= > questioning is the stability of shape and density over many years of=20= > heavy use. Hello Mr manino, Mr Stanwood stated in his email : quote > "I'm here in Holland at the shop of Frans Pietjouw and I'm looking=20 > very skeptically at one of these conical punchings. I'm struck by the=20= > fact that they are made from presssed felt and not woven felt. Woven=20= > felt is the technical choice for high impact areas because it greatly=20= > reduces compaction of the felt over time. That is why it is ALWAYS=20= > used for back rail cloth, balance rail, and for front rail punchings.=20= > " unquote Mr. Stanwood makes a mistake by telling all the subscribers of the PTG=20= - list that the sample of the conical Wurzen punching he is "looking at=20= so skeptically" is made of pressed felt and not woven felt. Although I know quite a lot about making felt and much more about=20 voicing felt, I myself am certainly not a factory felt expert, but=20 after all these years of working with Wurzen felt and communicating=20 with the factory, I was quite sure made an error. For that reason, in order to give a correct answer to Mr. Stanwood, I=20 contacted the manager of the Wurzen factory right away, apologized for=20= calling him on his free Saturday, and asked him, just to be sure,=20 whether their felt was in any way pressed or not, to which he answered=20= that at the Wurzen factory, they do not press their felt but fabricate=20= it only with their own (secret) technology of interlocking. This means that the felt they produce reaches its state of density in=20 the most natural way of felting, of interlocking the wool fibers,=20 without pressing them. That means also that they have reached a homogeneity which is quite=20 remarkable if compared to felts, made by other felt makers (I have=20 acquired some useful knowledge about other felt makers too) So in essence, It means that the felt is not pressed, and not woven. Layers of 'carded' felt are put together and they then undergo the=20 process of felting by means of endless shaking and pounding with the=20 help of steam, water and heat. The end result is a very homogenuous=20 mass of felt, a new massive material with as a special quality : high=20 density, high resiliency, high durability. As history has proved, these are the best properties for excellent=20 hammer felt (look at the former Weickert felt on most instruments of=20 the past and ask the oldest technicians among us what they know about=20 beautiful hammers... hah). I understand clearly that we all can make mistakes when we judge new=20 piano parts, but before putting our judgments publicly on 'paper', and=20= thereby disqualifying the ones who put them on the market, we should=20 first correctly examine the subject before we say negative things=20 about it. So it means that the new front punching I wrote my article about is=20 neither pressed, nor woven. > It is common to submit action cloth to pounding tests to simulate=20 > years of playing.=A0 If you have had this test done, it would be good = to=20 > hear the results from you.=A0 If you have not done this test, may I=20 > recommend that you do so?=A0 It may be correct that this felt is so = well=20 > intermeshed in the felting process that the horizontal woven fibers=20 > are not needed, but then, without some kind of comparison testing it=20= > is difficult to say for certain. Again, there are no woven layers. It is a compact piece of felt, but=20 with a very strong elasticity. You can easily feel that when you pinch=20= the punching between your fingers. There is the possibility to squeeze=20= it a little, but it bounces back immediately to its original size. Very durable that stuff. > > If no testing has been done yet, then it would be helpful for this to=20= > be done.=A0 A wonderful accuracy of regulation is not such a big = benefit=20 > if it changes rapidly under use. > > Another way to test this would be for a music school to alternate=20 > punchings in a practice room piano.=A0 Regulate for very even dip /=20 > aftertouch, then compare the key dip again after a year of heavy use. I have tested the new Wurzen punchings thoroughly on an institute which=20= is my biggest client. It is the Conservatory of Amsterdam. We (Grand Piano, a repair shop in Wormerveer, Holland) have, as a rule,=20= changed all the punchings on all the Conservatory instruments we have=20 so far repaired or restored. So far, the new punching hold out very well and have not changed one=20 bit after at least one year of very heavy use. At the Amsterdam Conservatory, the most important instruments are in=20 use approximately from 8 in the morning till 10.30 at night, seven days=20= a week. If we take lunches and coffee breaks into consideration, that is about=20= 12 to 13 hrs a day or, roughly, 85 hours per week, or, about 4000 hours=20= per year. again approximately. The very same important instruments (all Steinway B's and D's) are=20 being serviced (regulation and voicing) 4 times a year and tuned once a=20= week). I have not noticed any deformities and can vouch for that. It shows again that this Wurzen felt is just very good and it confirms=20= Mr. Birketts tests and those of others who have tried to find out about=20= the elasticity, and it is again contrary the words of Mr. Stanwood who=20= continues in his email : quote > "I would never recommend the use of this type of felt on the front=20 > rail because it is a high impact area. Using pressed felt in this=20 > area is technically the wrong choice. Over time, pressed felt will=20 > compact more quickly than woven felt causing dimensional changes which=20= > will effect regulation and it will get harder faster than woven felt=20= > when exposed to repeated high impact". unquote If I had not been able to give my opinion (I could have been on=20 vacation for instance) on Mr. Stanwoods more or less negative words, it=20= would have given a rather weird feeling to those who already use and=20 like the punchings, but it would also possibly hurt those who market=20 these punchings like 1. the Wurzen factory, 2. Grand Piano in Holland,=20= and 3. J=FCrgen Goering of Piano Forte Supply on your side of the pond. That is why it is better to first learn about its properties, test the=20= punchings out thoroughly and then comment about them, like Mr Birkett=20 did in his report to the list some time ago. > > Please do not misunderstand my post - I am not at all critical of=20 > these punchings, but like Mr. Stanwood I have had the concern that=20 > they would become deformed with heavy use more quickly than a woven=20 > punching. > > Don Mannino RPT I do not misunderstand your post, and you ask normal and reasonable=20 questions without beforehand putting down the subject of your=20 investigation. In the case of the deformation of the punchings I am of the opinion=20 that the more old fashioned punchings are more prone to deformation=20 than the new Wurzen ones, especially the cheaper very soft ones. I=20 think that has to do with the fact that they are woven. Between the=20 threads there is air, and over the years the threads comporess somewhat=20= and the punching loses its original height. In my professional opinion, the Steinway and more expensive Yamaha=20 punchings are the best of the common known punchings. It is thus very remarkable that this new punching is not only more=20 resilient than the Steinway and Yamaha punching, but that it causes a=20 much more precise and efficient regulation (!) thereby of course giving=20= a stronger transfer of energy to the string. Hence my enthusiasm, and hence my article in the Journal. Andr=E9 Oorebeek P.S. Again, I would like to bring forward that the issue of deformation,=20 however important generally speaking, is in my view actually not so=20 important. Why not you may ask? Because, if we look at older instruments of, say, 50 years old, the=20 punchings of those instruments are always deformed and flattened out. That is unavoidable, and it will certainly happen to high quality=20 Wurzen felt as well. However, because front rail punchings are not an expensive issue, it is=20= much better to change them regularly, say every 10 years. In my experience, that is always much better because it changes the way=20= those instruments feel, and it also changes the way those instruments=20 sound. If you do this for a first time with for instance a 25 year old=20 Steinway, the result is always remarkable and not many technicians are=20= aware of this (!!) Try it! It will be an ear opener (; >)) ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 9239 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/4b/fd/13/f8/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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