ETDs vs exam and master tunings

[Farrell]

Dave..... What a wonderfully thought-out post. I suspect you are 100% 
right-on with all your thoughts. Thanks for sharing and stating all so 
clearly.

Terry Farrell

----- Original Message ----- 

>   Regarding machine tunings VS master tunings.
>
>    I am a recent CTE and have observations of
> interest to this subject.
> Some interesting patterns occur when comparing a
> machine tunings to master tunings.
>
> Our new 2 Master tunings in Ottawa were done on a C7
> and a Steinway A2 respectively,
> with the following procedure.
>
> 1) Pitch raise piano with tunelab  and tune to a curve
> calculated from samples.
>
> 2)  The examination team did not like the stretch
> result in each case. It was not terrible
>    but did not represent our best effort. SO we
> tweaked the a3-a4 octave aurally until
> we were all satisfied, then we tweaked the machine
> curve till it matched what we had
> created aurally in  that octave. We now could refine
> the piano to a smooth machine curve that was based on
> the foundation of an aural stretch we liked at the
> temperament level.
>    The result was better, but still did not represent
> our best effort
>
> 3)   We then proceeded to go through step by step an
> entire aural tuning from scratch checking with careful
> aural tests at every note. We used the machine to
> record  deviations  Comparison against the machines
> prescribed smooth calculated average curve
> interesting patterns emerge.  The machine creates one
> smooth average curve, but the master tuning deviations
> follow the string scaling.
>   Deviation from the prescribed marching tuning will
> change incrementally for a half dozen notes then
> suddenly jump away from the machine tuning curve
> exactly at a string size change, then incrementally
> work its way back  to the curve, then jump again at
> the next string size change marked on the bridge.
>   Its as if sharp harmonics get progressively worse
> in the scale at a point that hey, we better change
> string size now. Suddenly the harmonic structure of
> the tone is improved. Careful aural checks will follow
> the pattern the scaling dictates.
>
>   The deviation in the low tenor can be a great deal;
> depending on the machine curve chosen the deviations
> could be enough that when using a machine one might be
> in danger of loosing points if not careful.
>
>   I was an aural tuner of 22 years, using tunelab
> these last 3 years.
>   The experience of doing master tuning has both
> increased by appreciation for EDTs strengths
> at one level, but also a greater awareness of EDTs
> limitations, and a deeper appreciation of aural skills
> and the need to preserve an aural tradition in tuning.
>
>
>    I would love to see many graphs of master tunings
> plotted against machine curves for the same piano.
>
>    Also, would users of verituner who have
> participated in master tuning comment. Verituner
> listens to each notes samples and graphs them all, so
> should reflect the scaling closer. I am told it takes
> a few passes for verituner to gather enough
> information on one piano though....comments.
>
>    On another related vein.
>
>    I have learned keeping my aural skills and keeping
> listening is important because............
>
> 1) I am on a concert stage tuning a D and the unit
> crashes.(once in 3 years)Whatcha goin t do lad without
> little egor yelln instructions at ya, concerts in 1
> hour.
>
> 2) I happly call up the tuning I want for a C7 concert
> and 3/4 through the tuning realize it is sounding less
> then stellar. I called up the wrong tuning file. 30
> min left till doors open.
>  Good thing I listened and questioned it. It was 6am
> without a pot of coffee and autopilot was tempting.
>
> 3) I go to do a tuning on a piano tuned 1 year earlier
> by another technician. This tech.tunes chromatically
> from A0, no aural checks, trusting the machine.
> B0 was C#1, C1 was a D1, others were normal. The
> machine easily become confused what note it is on in
> the bottom octave and some of the notes were 200 cents
> off, so you would go down chromatically but go up the
> scale aurally. The client had noticed, thus they had
> called a new tech, me. Let us never stop
> listening........never.
>
> 4) Sometimes, on some pianos(small ones), I just do
> not like what the machine is doing, especially
> in the low tenor crossing over to the bass. The
> machine tuning I calculate for some areas of some
> pianos just does not cut it for me. The deviation from
> a smooth calculated curve is just too much to bear.
>
> 4) Yes the machine is so efficient when changing
> pitch. Real serious intonation is only possible when
> the piano is already in tune. Careful aural tuning is
> simply better quality. Nerveless, I find for most road
> tuning more is accomplished for the client with the
> efficiency of the machine to make the best use of the
> time to achieve a fundamental level. Then the piano is
> ready to venture beyond.
>
>                                      Cheers
>
>                                      Dave Renaud