ETDs vs exam and master tunings

[Alan Barnard]

Yeah. Ditto. Nicely posted.

I don't know how to correct/change the calculated curve based on aural
tweaks and store it for later use.

Is there a simple explanation for doing that? I use Tunelab Pocket.

Alan Barnard
Salem, Missouri


> [Original Message]
> From: Farrell <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
> To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Date: 09/14/2005 7:02:57 AM
> Subject: Re: ETDs vs exam and master tunings
>
> Dave..... What a wonderfully thought-out post. I suspect you are 100% 
> right-on with all your thoughts. Thanks for sharing and stating all so 
> clearly.
>
> Terry Farrell
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>
> >   Regarding machine tunings VS master tunings.
> >
> >    I am a recent CTE and have observations of
> > interest to this subject.
> > Some interesting patterns occur when comparing a
> > machine tunings to master tunings.
> >
> > Our new 2 Master tunings in Ottawa were done on a C7
> > and a Steinway A2 respectively,
> > with the following procedure.
> >
> > 1) Pitch raise piano with tunelab  and tune to a curve
> > calculated from samples.
> >
> > 2)  The examination team did not like the stretch
> > result in each case. It was not terrible
> >    but did not represent our best effort. SO we
> > tweaked the a3-a4 octave aurally until
> > we were all satisfied, then we tweaked the machine
> > curve till it matched what we had
> > created aurally in  that octave. We now could refine
> > the piano to a smooth machine curve that was based on
> > the foundation of an aural stretch we liked at the
> > temperament level.
> >    The result was better, but still did not represent
> > our best effort
> >
> > 3)   We then proceeded to go through step by step an
> > entire aural tuning from scratch checking with careful
> > aural tests at every note. We used the machine to
> > record  deviations  Comparison against the machines
> > prescribed smooth calculated average curve
> > interesting patterns emerge.  The machine creates one
> > smooth average curve, but the master tuning deviations
> > follow the string scaling.
> >   Deviation from the prescribed marching tuning will
> > change incrementally for a half dozen notes then
> > suddenly jump away from the machine tuning curve
> > exactly at a string size change, then incrementally
> > work its way back  to the curve, then jump again at
> > the next string size change marked on the bridge.
> >   Its as if sharp harmonics get progressively worse
> > in the scale at a point that hey, we better change
> > string size now. Suddenly the harmonic structure of
> > the tone is improved. Careful aural checks will follow
> > the pattern the scaling dictates.
> >
> >   The deviation in the low tenor can be a great deal;
> > depending on the machine curve chosen the deviations
> > could be enough that when using a machine one might be
> > in danger of loosing points if not careful.
> >
> >   I was an aural tuner of 22 years, using tunelab
> > these last 3 years.
> >   The experience of doing master tuning has both
> > increased by appreciation for EDTs strengths
> > at one level, but also a greater awareness of EDTs
> > limitations, and a deeper appreciation of aural skills
> > and the need to preserve an aural tradition in tuning.
> >
> >
> >    I would love to see many graphs of master tunings
> > plotted against machine curves for the same piano.
> >
> >    Also, would users of verituner who have
> > participated in master tuning comment. Verituner
> > listens to each notes samples and graphs them all, so
> > should reflect the scaling closer. I am told it takes
> > a few passes for verituner to gather enough
> > information on one piano though....comments.
> >
> >    On another related vein.
> >
> >    I have learned keeping my aural skills and keeping
> > listening is important because............
> >
> > 1) I am on a concert stage tuning a D and the unit
> > crashes.(once in 3 years)Whatcha goin t do lad without
> > little egor yelln instructions at ya, concerts in 1
> > hour.
> >
> > 2) I happly call up the tuning I want for a C7 concert
> > and 3/4 through the tuning realize it is sounding less
> > then stellar. I called up the wrong tuning file. 30
> > min left till doors open.
> >  Good thing I listened and questioned it. It was 6am
> > without a pot of coffee and autopilot was tempting.
> >
> > 3) I go to do a tuning on a piano tuned 1 year earlier
> > by another technician. This tech.tunes chromatically
> > from A0, no aural checks, trusting the machine.
> > B0 was C#1, C1 was a D1, others were normal. The
> > machine easily become confused what note it is on in
> > the bottom octave and some of the notes were 200 cents
> > off, so you would go down chromatically but go up the
> > scale aurally. The client had noticed, thus they had
> > called a new tech, me. Let us never stop
> > listening........never.
> >
> > 4) Sometimes, on some pianos(small ones), I just do
> > not like what the machine is doing, especially
> > in the low tenor crossing over to the bass. The
> > machine tuning I calculate for some areas of some
> > pianos just does not cut it for me. The deviation from
> > a smooth calculated curve is just too much to bear.
> >
> > 4) Yes the machine is so efficient when changing
> > pitch. Real serious intonation is only possible when
> > the piano is already in tune. Careful aural tuning is
> > simply better quality. Nerveless, I find for most road
> > tuning more is accomplished for the client with the
> > efficiency of the machine to make the best use of the
> > time to achieve a fundamental level. Then the piano is
> > ready to venture beyond.
> >
> >                                      Cheers
> >
> >                                      Dave Renaud
>
>
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