Grotrian Steinwegs - to list or not to list?

[David Ilvedson]

OK...

I went back to the original post, then Ric's then David's.   

Ric's:  "straightforward opinion, stated in a sort off hand manner"

The length of the backscale, plus the other unmuted non singing lengths, 
plus the fact that the entire backscale of these instruments is unmuted 
yeilds a very predominant sizzle sound into the entire sound mix. Not my 
favorite sound personally. Sort of sound like one of those rivetet 
cymbals. Otherwise I've always found Grotrians to be lacking something 
I've never really been able to put my finger on.  Nicely made 
instruments I suppose, but nothing there that grabs you and moves the 
earth under your feet.

David's:  "a little confrontational response, imho"   Could have done without the "I don't think so"

A predominant "sizzle" sound like cymbals with rivets???  I don't think so.
Such a sound would be wholly unacceptable and I've never heard anything like
that from a Grotrian or any other similarly designed piano.  Length of the
backscale or lack of cloth in the backscale or in other non speaking areas
will not yield any sizzle sound or sound of riveted cymbals.  If you hear
that I would look for something else, like a loose piece of wire resting on
a string.  If you get a bit too much overring of sympathetics for your
liking, then weave some cloth into the offending areas.  Test for that by
striking some staccato chords in various areas of the piano and listening
for a bit of after echo.  How much is desirable is a matter of taste.  Some
people like a very dry and complete shutoff, some don't. After restringing I
often don't put any cloth in until it's evident that the piano needs it,
unless I want the look of it.  The areas where you are most likely to need
it will be the bass and the low end of the tenor on some pianos.  Rarely do
I find the cloth necessary in the aliquot area of a Steinway.  Most people
insert the cloth more out of habit than need.

Clearly David's "I don't think so."  took Ric aback and the tit for tat was on.   

IMHO:  (note how I deftly used those 4 letters)

Clearly no Grotrian Steinweg is going to have a sound like a cymbal with rivets.   

Ric said sort of like...meaning to me a little bit, kind of like...

If we think about what the Baldwin SD10 sounded like at the high end without any 
string felt in the tuning pin area...that is probably what Ric is describing.   When Baldwin 
started doing that, I'm not sure...But that is not the sound I want on that piano and I will 
always get some understring felt in there and/or stringing braid.   I wouldn't hesitate to 
mute off the bass, tenor section backscale of a Grotrian either.   That isn't the kind of 
sound I want.   How many pianos have that unmuted backscale?   If this is Grotrian's 
usual method they must have been looking for a different sound.   

David I.

PS   Hopefully Conrad, you haven't been storing the flamesuits in New Orleans?  











----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Ric Brekne" <ricbrek@broadpark.no>
To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
Received: 9/26/2005 9:47:30 AM
Subject: Grotrian Steinwegs - to list or not to list?


>Michael:

>I wouldnt worry about it.  Been through this a number of times already 
>with David and its really no sweat.  Pay no attention to these silly spats.

>As for your Grotrian.  It was not designed to be a Steinway, so if you 
>are to stick to their idea of piano sound then muting any of the 
>backscale lengths is simply innappropriate. Changing that will make the 
>thing sound other then how Grotrians are supposed to (according to their 
>makers) sound.  By all means if you feel you like the sound better by 
>clothing off as I mentioned in my first post, then do so.  Just dont be 
>suprised to get hit on about it by the guy who comes after you and has a 
>hair up his butt about that kinda thing :)  The most extreme change of a 
>Grotrian I ever saw was one that was rebuilt at the Bechstein factory.  
>All backlengths muted off and the front segments were totally 
>Bechstein-ized.  Most curious sound I ever heard from a piano really.  
>Half and Half.  The owner loved it.  I thought it weird but kept that to 
>myself.

>Tell you what you do.  Use masking tape to mask off the backscale 
>temporarilly.  If you like the resultant sound then braid it off. 

>Cheers
>RicB


>..........

>Michael Gambles writes;

>Oh dear! Oh dear-o-dear! I truly and earnestly had no intention of starting
>up this type of cor-res-pon-dence. I originally asked.... The Grotrian
>Steinweg, so similar in design and length of backscale, has no listing cloth
>other than some thick felt under the backscale in the bass section. Having
>just restrung my S&S 'A' and bearing in mind there's "bearing felt" just
>before the hitch pins under the hitch loop twists, what does everyone think.
>Should I list or not list?


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