This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment The whole thing has gotten rather ridiculous. My initial statement was = in response to the claim that unfelted backscales will result in a "sizzle = like riveted cymbals" and that sound is characteristic of all Grotrians. = That is simply untrue, a misstatement, product of misinformation or = carelessness. I don't know which. It is not a matter of opinion or taste. The sound of riveted cymbals is unmistakable (I was drummer once). It is nothing = like the sound emanating from an unlisted backscale. I simply pointed that = out and thought that I would be remiss, knowing otherwise, not to. When the originator of the statement responded in a weaselly fashion rather than being big enough to admit the error, I concocted a response riddled with sarcasm. Not particularly proud of that, but some people bring out the devil in me. I do, however, take full responsibility. (-:=20 =20 Needless to say, I think we should all be big enough to handle it when called on our misstatements. It is, after all, a list designed to = provide information (hopefully good information), so when something appears that isn't, I think we have a responsibility to correct and clarify. To go = out of our way to defend our errors simply puts us, as the historian Barbara Tuchman so aptly pointed out, on a march of folly. =20 =20 David Love davidlovepianos@comcast.net=20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On = Behalf Of David Ilvedson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 12:41 PM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: RE: Grotrian Steinwegs - to list or not to list? =20 OK... =20 I went back to the original post, then Ric's then David's. =20 =20 Ric's: "straightforward opinion, stated in a sort off hand manner" =20 The length of the backscale, plus the other unmuted non singing lengths, = plus the fact that the entire backscale of these instruments is unmuted=20 yeilds a very predominant sizzle sound into the entire sound mix. Not my = favorite sound personally. Sort of sound like one of those rivetet=20 cymbals. Otherwise I've always found Grotrians to be lacking something=20 I've never really been able to put my finger on. Nicely made=20 instruments I suppose, but nothing there that grabs you and moves the=20 earth under your feet. =20 David's: "a little confrontational response, imho" Could have done without the "I don't think so" =20 A predominant "sizzle" sound like cymbals with rivets??? I don't think = so. Such a sound would be wholly unacceptable and I've never heard anything = like that from a Grotrian or any other similarly designed piano. Length of = the backscale or lack of cloth in the backscale or in other non speaking = areas will not yield any sizzle sound or sound of riveted cymbals. If you = hear that I would look for something else, like a loose piece of wire resting = on a string. If you get a bit too much overring of sympathetics for your liking, then weave some cloth into the offending areas. Test for that = by striking some staccato chords in various areas of the piano and = listening for a bit of after echo. How much is desirable is a matter of taste. = Some people like a very dry and complete shutoff, some don't. After = restringing I often don't put any cloth in until it's evident that the piano needs it, unless I want the look of it. The areas where you are most likely to = need it will be the bass and the low end of the tenor on some pianos. Rarely = do I find the cloth necessary in the aliquot area of a Steinway. Most = people insert the cloth more out of habit than need. =20 Clearly David's "I don't think so." took Ric aback and the tit for tat = was on. =20 =20 IMHO: (note how I deftly used those 4 letters) =20 Clearly no Grotrian Steinweg is going to have a sound like a cymbal with rivets. =20 =20 Ric said sort of like...meaning to me a little bit, kind of like... =20 If we think about what the Baldwin SD10 sounded like at the high end = without any=20 string felt in the tuning pin area...that is probably what Ric is describing. When Baldwin=20 started doing that, I'm not sure...But that is not the sound I want on = that piano and I will=20 always get some understring felt in there and/or stringing braid. I wouldn't hesitate to=20 mute off the bass, tenor section backscale of a Grotrian either. That isn't the kind of=20 sound I want. How many pianos have that unmuted backscale? If this = is Grotrian's=20 usual method they must have been looking for a different sound. =20 =20 David I. =20 PS Hopefully Conrad, you haven't been storing the flamesuits in New Orleans? =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "Ric Brekne" <ricbrek@broadpark.no> To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> Received: 9/26/2005 9:47:30 AM Subject: Grotrian Steinwegs - to list or not to list? =20 =20 >Michael: =20 >I wouldnt worry about it. Been through this a number of times already=20 >with David and its really no sweat. Pay no attention to these silly = spats. =20 >As for your Grotrian. It was not designed to be a Steinway, so if you=20 >are to stick to their idea of piano sound then muting any of the=20 >backscale lengths is simply innappropriate. Changing that will make the = >thing sound other then how Grotrians are supposed to (according to = their=20 >makers) sound. By all means if you feel you like the sound better by=20 >clothing off as I mentioned in my first post, then do so. Just dont be = >suprised to get hit on about it by the guy who comes after you and has = a=20 >hair up his butt about that kinda thing :) The most extreme change of = a=20 >Grotrian I ever saw was one that was rebuilt at the Bechstein factory. = >All backlengths muted off and the front segments were totally=20 >Bechstein-ized. Most curious sound I ever heard from a piano really. =20 >Half and Half. The owner loved it. I thought it weird but kept that = to=20 >myself. =20 >Tell you what you do. Use masking tape to mask off the backscale=20 >temporarilly. If you like the resultant sound then braid it off.=20 =20 >Cheers >RicB =20 =20 >.......... =20 >Michael Gambles writes; =20 >Oh dear! Oh dear-o-dear! I truly and earnestly had no intention of = starting >up this type of cor-res-pon-dence. I originally asked.... The Grotrian >Steinweg, so similar in design and length of backscale, has no listing cloth >other than some thick felt under the backscale in the bass section. = Having >just restrung my S&S 'A' and bearing in mind there's "bearing felt" = just >before the hitch pins under the hitch loop twists, what does everyone think. >Should I list or not list? =20 =20 >_______________________________________________ >pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives _______________________________________________ pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/74/b5/85/e6/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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